• Dark Threads of Immigration in America

    February 8, 2017

    Tags: , , ,
    Posted in: Democracy, Post-Constitution America, Trump



    For those who say “This is not who we are,” well, look again. It all seems to be exactly who we are and have been.

    President Donald Trump’s executive order banning travelers, immigrants and refugees from seven predominantly Muslim countries is only the latest twist of dark threads that have always been present in America and its immigration policy. The executive order is not unprecedented. It is evolutionary, predictable, nearly an inevitable step.



    The Seven Targeted Countries

    Begin with the targeted countries, Iran, Iraq, Libya, Somalia, Sudan, Syria, and Yemen. America has bombed or used drones and special forces in six of them, and attacked the seventh with cyberwar. The Muslims there have suffered far in excess of a travel ban at the hands of America. Indeed, many of the refugees leaving those nations became refugees as a result of American war-making, often under the guise (Libya, Iraq, Syria) of “protecting” those people from an evil dictator, some Sunday morning talk show version of genocide, or a red line few outside the White House could see.

    The countries in Trump’s executive order have long been singled out for special treatment under American immigration law.

    Though Trump in his crude style talks about “extreme vetting,” such a process has been in place since the George W. Bush administration, continued under Obama, and is operating today. It has a nicer, if somewhat Orwellian name, “administrative processing.” On the list of nation affected: Iran, Iraq, Libya, Somalia, Sudan, Syria, and Yemen. People from these nations, and a few others, go through an alternate visa processing procedure that delays their travel. The process involves various intelligence agencies vetting the traveler. Some applications are left to pend indefinitely, a de facto travel ban.

    The seven nations also were a part of the Bush-era Muslim registry, known as NSEERS.

    Trump’s seven nations also appear on an Obama-era list. That list, the equally Orwellian-named Visa Waiver Program Improvement and Terrorist Travel Prevention Act, disallows use of America’s visa-free travel program to persons who even once visited the targeted nations. So, for example, a British citizen otherwise eligible to enter the United States without a visa must instead appear for questioning at an American embassy abroad if she, for any reason, even as a journalist, stepped foot in Iran.

    That nations long-held to sponsor terrorism such as Saudi Arabia and Pakistan are not on Trump’s list is not surprising. They haven’t appeared on most of Bush’s or Obama’s lists either.



    Refugees Not Welcome

    Following Trump’s directives aimed at refugees it quickly became almost mandatory for celebrities and pundits to come up with a personal story or two about their family’s immigrant ties, and preach a bit about the Statue of Liberty and freedom.

    Left unsaid was that the number of refugees admitted to the United States is small compared to many other nations.

    The U.S. admitted a record number of Muslim refugees in 2016, some 38,901 of the nearly “>85,000 total refugees allowed into the U.S. Go back to 2006, and the total number of refugees admitted drops to under 50,000. Though there have been refugee “surges” into the United States such as Holocaust survivors following World War II (650,000 people) and the Vietnamese “boat people” (100,000) after the end of that war, Americans historically feared refugees, not welcomed them. Since 1980, the United States has accepted less than two million refugees overall, and 40 percent of those were children accompanying their refugee parent(s). The U.S. sets an annual ceiling on refugees admitted, currently 85,000. Refugee number 85,001, no matter how desperate her case, must wait until the next year.

    In contrast, among Syrians alone, Canada in 2016 took in about twice as many refugees as the United States. Some 25 percent of the entire population of Lebanon are refugees. Germany expects to admit 300,000 refugees from various nations in 2016, following close to one million in 2015.



    Discrimination by Nationality

    Following the 1965 Immigration and Naturalization Act, 8 U.S.C. 1152 Sec. 202(a)(1)(A) makes it unlawful to ban immigrants (i.e., Legal Permanent Residents, Green card holders) because of “nationality, place of birth, or place of residence.” The law however allows banning nonimmigrants such as tourists or students, as well as refugees, for almost any reason. Challenges to this are near-impossible. American courts have consistently upheld that they cannot exercise judicial reviewability over visa decisions made abroad in the specific, and more broadly, generally do not extend the protections of American law to foreigners outside the U.S. The Supreme Court has also long-acknowledged immigration law’s “plenary power” doctrine, which generally immunizes from judicial review the substantive immigration decisions of Congress and the executive branch.

    And even though legal immigrants are not banned by nationality or place of birth per se, restrictions on the number of legal immigrants from certain nations are limited to the point of near-virtual bans. For example, the restrictions are such that some Filipino and Mexican relatives of American citizens face a 24 year wait (another Orwellian term, “priority date”) for a Green card. It is not uncommon for applicants to pass away before their turn comes.



    Fear Itself

    However, the most evolutionary aspect of Trump’s executive action on immigration, and the inevitable hardening and expansion of such positions, is the underlying driver of it all: fear.

    The government of the United States, from September 12, 2001 through the present day, has constantly fanned the flames of fear of terrorism. Despite the well-known statistics of how an American here at home has a greater chance of being struck by lightning than dying in a terror act, that following 9/11 only a handful of Americans have fallen victim to acts of terror inside the United States, and despite the fact that few of any terror attacks inside the Homeland were committed by the poster child of fear, the foreign terrorist who infiltrates the U.S. specifically to do harm, Americans remain terrified.

    For over 15 years, three presidents have used fear (they called it security) as a justification for, well, nearly everything. And Americans bought the line nearly every time. Fear of the smoking gun being a mushroom cloud. Fear of terrorists slipping through the net justifying NSA spying on Americans. Fear of more terrorism justifying torture, drone attacks, leaving Guantanamo open, militarizing Africa, having us take our shoes off at the airport, not being able to bring a bottle of water on a plane, no longer being able to enter a growing range of buildings without some sort of security check and bag search, background checks, showing ID, and the No-Fly list. 30 American governors said they’d refuse to accept Syrian refugees into their states if they could.

    Trump’s use of executive orders to accomplish his immigration goals is also nothing new. Both Bush and Obama did the same. In fact, Franklin Roosevelt used an executive order to establish the World War II Japanese internment camps.



    The Ugly Truth

    Of course nothing Trump has done or has proposed regarding immigration will realistically make America safer. That is true, and it is irrelevant. Like much of the security theatre that has become normalized post-9/11, safety is not the point. Keeping fear alive and maintaining the politically-driven myth that government is on the job protecting the Homeland is what matters. Trump knows this, as did Obama and Bush.

    The ugly truth is despite the airport protests, a large number of Americans remain afraid of foreigners and want what Trump did. The ugly truth is there is unfortunately nothing here unique to the Trump era.



    BONUS: Those who focused last weekend on the two Iraqis who translated for the American military in Iraq at great risk to their lives and were detained at a New York airport may wish to read about the decades-long struggle of translators from Iraq and Afghanistan to escape those nations for fear of their lives, and the poor treatment they have received at the hands of now three administrations.


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    Copyright © 2017. All rights reserved. The views expressed here are solely those of the author(s) in their private capacity. Follow me on Twitter!

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  • Recent Comments

    • RICH BAUER said...

      1

      So when the next major terrorist attack is committed by or with the financial support of Saudi nationals, we can blame the little dick-tater Donald, who put his financial interests above the country’s. The more things change…

      02/8/17 5:23 AM | Comment Link

    • RICH BAUER said...

      2

      The whole Muslim ban is laughable, and the best response we should have is to continue to ridicule the fearmonger mentality. It apparently is working as Dimwit Donald is more afraid of the American comic genius of Melissa McCarthy than he fears Muslims. Spicer looks to be the first to go, followed by Conway, and maybe General Jack D. Ripper Flynn. Laugh and the whole world laughs with US and not at US.

      02/8/17 5:35 AM | Comment Link

    • RICH BAUER said...

      3

      Trump: Won’t someone please attack US? SNL is killing me.

      02/8/17 5:40 AM | Comment Link

    • John Poole said...

      4

      I doubt anyone initiating the travel ban realized that some “non terroristic” people living in “good countries” can hold dual citizenships. A resident of Switzerland who travels regularly on business to the USA might also hold a citizenship of one of the banned countries. They are therefore banned from flying into the USA. Pity the poor embassy staff having to try and rectify that mess.

      02/8/17 8:50 AM | Comment Link

    • RICH BAUER said...

      5

      Want to really fuck America? Tourists can spend their money somewhere else.

      People who want to visit the United States could be asked to hand over their email and social-media passwords to officials as part of enhanced security checks, the country’s top domestic security chief said.

      Homeland Security Secretary John Kelly told Congress on Tuesday the measure was one of several being considered to vet refugees and visa applicants from seven Muslim-majority countries.

      “We want to get on their social media, with passwords: What do you do, what do you say?” he told the House Homeland Security Committee. “If they don’t want to cooperate then you don’t come in.”

      His comments came the same day judges heard arguments over President Donald Trump’s executive order temporarily barring entry to most refugees and travelers from Syria, Iraq, Iran, Somalia, Sudan, Libya and Yemen.

      Kelly, a Trump appointee, stressed that asking for people’s passwords was just one of “the things that we’re thinking about” and that none of the suggestions were concrete.

      Concrete…like solidly stupid.

      Hey Disney, you may want to weigh in on this.

      02/8/17 9:30 AM | Comment Link

    • teri said...

      6

      Yeah, everything going on now, all the plans the Republicans and Trump are crowing about implementing is just the way we’ve done things for decades. So what the fuck are people upset about? There’s no point in protesting or being concerned. Hell, this country didn’t have public schools, the EPA or labor laws when it was founded. Did it? Well, did it? Any minimum wage shit in the Constitution? Anything in there about your pansy-ass so-called “right” to clean water and clean air? Nosirreebob. Besides, it’s just the same shit we’ve done to other countries all these years: privatized everything, austerity measures, slave labor, rule by the oligarchs and/or military juntas. So now they’re just doing it to us. Suck it up, people. Just shut up already.

      What did protesting get those weenie Occupy Wallstreet protesters? That’s right, not one goddamn thing. Obama and his DoJ and the local po-po’s shut them down hard, didn’t they? Gave trillions of bucks to the big banks anyway, too. If you were one of those fools who wasted his time protesting the bailouts, or Libya, or Guantanamo Bay back then, didn’t you learn your lesson? Besides, if you protested or write letters or whatever back then, it didn’t work, obviously (DUH), so you deserve whatever fucked up crap is dished out to you now because you failed to stop the system then. Speaking out certainly meant nothing, and it didn’t work, so why try to change things now, you idiots? And if you are just now getting woke, if you didn’t notice and protest when Bush or Obama did the same shit (just behind closed doors with the media hiding crap for them), you REALLY have no right to complain now.

      Let the Republicans and Trump take away your medicare and social security – those things are for losers, anyway. And let them frack the entire country until it’s a cess pit of toxic waste from sea to shining sea – you don’t drink all that much water any how, do ya? Besides, God wouldn’t have put all that oil and natural gas in the ground if he didn’t want us to use it. Amiright? And your property taxes and rent can just as easily go to the rich bastards who own the charter schools as it goes to public education right now. What’s the big diff? And hey, that Supreme Court nominee, the one who thinks the Hobby Lobby case was righteous law – well, you personally don’t have a need for birth control, much less abortions, so let’s get rid of that Roe v Wade thing pronto. Women have, for centuries, I tell you, used herbal teas to try and get rid of their unwanted pregnancies – no-one is keeping them from roaming the fields in search of some good herb, are they? Ohhhh, and Trump loves the civil asset forfeiture program, even threatened to “ruin the career” of some local politician in some godforsaken state who thought people ought to be found guilty of a CRIME before the police could confiscate all their shit. Hey, hey, whaddya say? Whatever they don’t take from you through your taxes (’cause you ain’t rich, so your taxes aren’t going to go down) or through eminent domain (another Trump fave), or through increased costs thanks to privatization or through attrition because those jobs aren’t really coming back (unless you want to join the military or work at McDonald’s) – whatever is left to you, you can shut the fuck up and be grateful they are leaving you that much. Gobbless America, and Gobbless Ayn Rand,too.

      But don’t tell me about how awful Trump is, or ask me did I hear what the Republican assholes cooked up now – because that’s just the way things are and have been for some time. No point in squawking about it now. Losers. Sissies.

      JESUS.

      02/8/17 9:55 AM | Comment Link

    • chuck said...

      7

      Hey Liz Warren, what did MLK think about Obama Droning and bombing people of color in seven countries ? What about the police violence under O? F the D and R parties. Have a nice day.

      02/8/17 11:06 AM | Comment Link

    • chuck said...

      8

      Obama and Africom helped Blacks?

      02/8/17 11:42 AM | Comment Link

    • John Poole said...

      9

      Lisa- we now have an out plutocrat as POTUS so the charade of this country being a so called democracy has hopefully been put to rest. We vassals and proles can only hope Trump has some benevolence in his Wharton School forged heart. What’s my definition of a plutocrat? A guy who owns a lot of land worked by cheap (slave) labor and a very regal house. That actually defines most of this country’s founding fathers. Founded as a plutocracy and still functioning as one. Just learn to be able to tread in the moat for long periods of time since the drawbridge leading to the castle is not going to be lowered for most of us.

      02/8/17 2:14 PM | Comment Link

    • teri said...

      10

      BTW, my comment above was sarcasm. In case you missed it.

      But if it floats your boat to be all blasé and shit, just keep justifying this ongoing slaughter of everything done for the benefit of the people since the New Deal by saying it’s just “business as usual”.

      I say if it takes a Trump and some loathsome Republicans who hate the public with a vengeful distain heretofore unseen in our political structure to wake people the fuck up, we should be glad that some of the US’ians are finally cottoning on to the con being played on them. I say, about time and hallelujah. And keep your powder dry.

      02/8/17 2:19 PM | Comment Link

    • chuck said...

      11

      My Boat is Floating! Abandon ship, the Empire is falling. Water is Life. Remember Kent State, etc..

      02/8/17 2:24 PM | Comment Link

    • chuck said...

      12

      Imagine… Tens of Thousands at Standing Rock! Enjoy

      02/8/17 2:36 PM | Comment Link

    • chuck said...

      13

      The Dems might even join in. Eliz. Warren said she was a native. Ban all immigrants. Stand with Standing Rock. Stop the Black Snake, or stop it later?! Will the natives stop immigrants? Does the U.S. (Exceptionalist) kill natives? Do the D and R Critters approve and profit? Enjoy1

      02/8/17 2:42 PM | Comment Link

    • John Poole said...

      14

      Lisa- an armed revolution is the only way to change things and that can be very messy. Americans will just go along to get along. The spirit of mass insurrection perhaps has been bred out over 200 years.

      02/8/17 3:23 PM | Comment Link

    • teri said...

      15

      Lisa hasn’t even posted a comment on this thread, John. Who are you talking to?

      02/8/17 4:29 PM | Comment Link

    • RICH BAUER said...

      16

      His imaginary friend.

      02/8/17 4:34 PM | Comment Link

    • RICH BAUER said...

      17

      Trump finally tweeted something we can all agree: Our security is at risk…since he became presidense.

      02/8/17 4:35 PM | Comment Link

    • chuck said...

      18

      Be a Water Protector.

      02/8/17 4:59 PM | Comment Link

    • chuck said...

      19

      Hear the BS, Buffett is bad, Trump bad. The U.S. is bad, to the bone. Help us.

      02/8/17 5:01 PM | Comment Link

    • chuck said...

      20

      Trump is a loser? Obama was a Nobel Prize winner and loser. Enjoy!

      02/8/17 5:03 PM | Comment Link

    • chuck said...

      21

      Drone on Trump ( brought to you by the big Black O and Democrats)

      02/8/17 5:04 PM | Comment Link

    • Mitch said...

      22

      I see things have not changed one single bit here.

      M

      02/8/17 5:21 PM | Comment Link

    • chuck said...

      23

      ty

      02/8/17 5:33 PM | Comment Link

    • RICH BAUER said...

      24

      Mitch, you are right. Donald is still selling US out to the Saudi camel fuckers.

      02/8/17 5:48 PM | Comment Link

    • Dark Threads of Immigration in America http://wemeantwell.com/blog/… | Dr. Roy Schestowitz (罗伊) said...

      25

      […] Threads of Immigration in America http://wemeantwell.com/blog/2017/02/08/dark-threads-of-immigration-in-america/ #us closes its doors. Not […]

      02/8/17 5:49 PM | Comment Link

    • Mitch said...

      26

      Also…

      Bauer…

      Next time I travel…. I will be sure to post my schedule….NOT !!!!

      Good to see your still trying to burn the world to the ground..

      John Poole…. Peter has my permission to release my email adress to you… And you alone…..

      Btw… Lunar new year was awesome….. Over seas….. Sorry for not being around to back you up….. And… Thank you…. For the support…

      Also…. RESPECT!!!… Go out with a ‘BANG’……I get it.

      Lisa…. I have zero idea who you are…. But… Your my kind of people…. Fyi… I have pirated your line about. “take your meds and go to be like your supposed to ” line…… I’ve been sticking to “look at the pretty flowers “…
      Lisa…. Fyi….. bloodthirsty and Bauer…. Yep…. Racists….(Bauer will hide behind the ‘fact”… He’s black…so he can’t be ‘racist’)… ( yes… Bullshit )

      And…..if…… Your wondering….. I’m the infamous ‘ Mitch’……

      For and indepth intro….. First comment….behind this link….

      http://wemeantwell.com/blog/2017/01/26/i-dont-think-everything-is-different/

      And fyi…. Lisa…. Your right on the money about Bauer and bloodthirstypitchfork. ..

      And…. Fyi….. Teri…..she also says this about the US military…..( what’s the saying about forewarned???)

      “teri said….
      “. So they will be “at risk” for a couple of weeks while their weapons and attack ships are re-tooled. So the fuck what? Considering that our troops are mainly attacking extremely poor and defenseless countries and deliberately turning them into cesspools and ruined desolate ghettos that can no longer support modern human life, I wonder why, exactly, you spend one minute giving a flying fuck if “our troops” face a minuscule “risk” for a week or two. ” “””

      M

      Further….. Peter said….

      Trump is doing nothing different than the previous two president’s….. He’s just being open and direct about it…

      Just a ton of manipulated hate…. Being generated by people that failed to realize….the bank of special interests …. Has a bankrupt point.

      M

      Bonus …. I do find it quite interesting that those that have said it most horrid things……come out of hiding….right after they think the one that confronted them…..is gone….

      Rather than just traveling….

      Pretty chicken shit….. And….yes….bloodthirsty….. That’s all YOU….

      Now…. Take your meds…. And go to bed…like your supposed to…

      M

      02/8/17 5:51 PM | Comment Link

    • Mitch said...

      27

      Crazy Bauer,

      In response to your repeated taunts… About Saudi….

      Pretty slick move… Using Obama’s list to develop the vetting list…. Wouldn’t you agree?????

      M

      02/8/17 6:23 PM | Comment Link

    • RICH BAUER said...

      28

      Trump is the present. Won’t you agree?

      02/8/17 7:36 PM | Comment Link

    • Mitch said...

      29

      Geeee……

      should I be offended when the conversation ends when I walk in the room…….

      Or…. Flattered…..????

      Chickenshit closet bigots.

      Hmmmmmm…

      This begs the statement….

      “…. How do you Baffle a liberal…,,,,,, Use LOGIC !!!!!!!”

      M

      PS….

      Crazy Bauer…..your previous staements…. About sex changes… Alt iD’s…. Etc….

      They only show your lack of education… Etc….

      Try logic… Rather than hate…..

      PS…… Try and get over your Dick envy of President Trump. ( when you resort to insults… You look as foolish as Nancy Pelosi in her reference to “President Bush “…..

      HINT….. STOP LOOKING at President Trump as a POLITICIAN…. Start looking as him as a BUSINESSMAN….

      He will start to make sense to you then….

      Translation….. If your not doing your job….. Your HISTORY!!!!!

      M

      PS 2….. bloodthirstypitchfork….. To quote you…. In your really pathetic efforts to silence anyone who disagrees with you…. As you tried with ‘Lisa’.

      “fuck off “……… Racists and bigot’s…COWARDS ..( yes….that’s baiting you.. )….., never will understand you……….

      But…. You “only used ” the term once…….

      Btw….. Brussels…. Milan…. Beijing…. Sydney…Lima….. They were AWESOME!!!!… Like OMG!!!!!!==

      Now…

      Take your meds…and go to bed…

      M

      02/8/17 7:39 PM | Comment Link

    • Mitch said...

      30

      Crazy Bauer….

      Yes…. President Trump is the present…

      What??????… Did you expect him to fix everything from the past in TWO WEEKS???????

      Now….. Put away your matches….. Go to your safe place….take your meds….and go to bed…..like your supposed to.

      (PS…. ‘Lisa ‘…. Thanks for for the line…awesome.. Thanks )

      M

      02/8/17 7:45 PM | Comment Link

    • RICH BAUER said...

      31

      MitchLisalot.

      02/8/17 7:57 PM | Comment Link

    • Mitch said...

      32

      PS…… Whatever…

      Bloodthirstypitchfork….

      Good to see your priorities are still in line…

      Keeping your internet…. When your eating your biscuits and syrup…. After…. Of course getting busted for lying about your income on your SNAP….

      M

      PS
      Neat to see you come out of troll/lurk mode….. Right after you think I’m gone…

      One word for you……,,,

      THERAPY !!!!!!!

      M

      02/8/17 8:00 PM | Comment Link

    • Mitch said...

      33

      Crazy Bauer….

      Huh??????

      Like I said….. ‘ Take your meds…. Go to bed ‘

      M

      PS…. Pretty weak response.

      M

      02/8/17 8:04 PM | Comment Link

    • Mitch said...

      34

      Hey John Poole…

      Btw….

      I’m home…. I won’t be traveling again for another couple, three weeks.

      And…

      Starknakedtruth…… Did I miss anything. ????

      M

      02/8/17 8:10 PM | Comment Link

    • John Poole said...

      35

      For Lisa said: My mistake. I do wish everyone would use their real name when possible. I am actually John Terry Poole and my son Jonathan Poole is the RSO at the American embassy at Helsinki. He sometimes is blamed for my rants by other DS agents.

      02/8/17 9:25 PM | Comment Link

    • bloodypitchfork said...

      36

      Mitch said

      “And…..if…… Your wondering….. I’m the infamous ‘ Mitch’……”

      (psst.. psst…Mitch.. listen dood.. I dislike informing people with conditions like yours..
      but dood.. fer christs sake, that perineal abscess between your ears is really..really starting to..well, ..for lack of a better wor….wait..
      I have an idea..

      Perhaps, it’ll help if you’d wipe that pus drooling from your mouth. I mean…dood.. that shit is really starting to reek. Oh, don’t forget to wipe up that trail of it too. I mean..geezus dood.. there’s a line of cockroaches following you, clear from the parking lot.

      Dood…, I don’t know how you cleared customs, but that might account for the numerous emergency Hazmat teams being called by the TSA after your various departures. Rumors have it they declared each location a Superfund cleanup site.

      All I can say is..infamous indeed.

      02/9/17 7:18 AM | Comment Link

    • Mitch said...

      37

      Bloodthirsty…. Sort of speaks…..

      Nice to see Trump has not deported your racist ass ….yet.

      M

      PS….. Your STILL proving my point.

      M

      02/9/17 7:46 AM | Comment Link

    • bloodypitchfork said...

      38

      fuk..Peter, I’m sorry, but it’s really becoming quite difficult to address your posts without having to sanitize a comment field to do so first. I don’t mind supplying the chlorine, but at my age, getting down on my hands and knees is trying, to say the least. In that regard, I’ve tried my best over the last 6 yrs to support your blog, having spent probably the better part of a year of my life, acknowledging your semi daily posts while exercising my 1st Amendment rights.
      Unfortunately, as in any democratic forum, there is always a few who disagree with my viewpoints. However, disagreement is one thing. Character assassination is a whole nuther animal, which now has become a staple here. In that light, in good conscience, and blood pressure safety, I can no longer contribute to this insanity. Lord knows I tried to diffuse things at first, but I’ve grown weary of go for the throat battles with fucking assholes and dimwits. Good luck with your efforts to enlighten the planet. I just hope these pricks don’t drag your blog to the bottom of their cesspool with them.

      02/9/17 7:49 AM | Comment Link

    • Mitch said...

      39

      Waaaaaaaaa…

      Bloodthirsty…..

      To quote your repeated comments….(strange word for what you do )….
      ” Fuk off ”

      As the bully ‘Bloodthirstypitchfork runs away…..just like all bullies.

      M

      PS….. Heard this from you before.

      M

      02/9/17 8:06 AM | Comment Link

    • Mitch said...

      40

      bloodthirsty….

      PS….

      Your statement…. Its called ‘guilt ‘… And justify ‘….

      Typical…. And predictable….

      M

      02/9/17 8:12 AM | Comment Link

    • chuck said...

      41

      New born boy killed when mother shot in raid by U.S.. Mother shot in stomach. Baby born with bullet wound and dies. Exceptionalism.

      02/9/17 9:42 AM | Comment Link

    • RICH BAUER said...

      42

      Mr Zero belittles a War Hero

      Chickenhawk Trump: Sen. McCain should not be talking about the success or failure of a mission to the media. Only emboldens the enemy! He’s been losing so….

      Another shot of the uncivil war. The media created the frankenstein. It will destroy it too. MSNBC’s Joe Scarborough said journalists and other Americans must find a way to organize the repeated “shocks to the system” delivered by the Trump administration, sorting indignities such as attacks on celebrities or retailers in one pile and challenges to democracy into another.

      “Attacks on judges and attacks on civil rights leaders and attacks on war heroes, that’s a bit more troubling,” Scarborough said.

      Even more troubling, he added, was the White House insistence that no one should be allowed to criticize its military operations — even when they result in civilian casualties and the loss of American life and military hardware.

      It’s dangerous language when you say that somebody has betrayed America because they don’t interpret your version of law the way you want them to, or when you call court decision outrageous,” Scarborough said. “These are the words of autocrats.”

      Those are words of a true chickenhawk. Not only are they lies, MitchLisalot, but revealing that this chickenhawk is so unaware how pathetic he is. THIS is the guy you want to lead US? He emboldens the enemy.

      02/9/17 9:58 AM | Comment Link

    • John Poole said...

      43

      Bauer- I doubt any POTUS “leads” America including Trump. They are almost all figureheads doing the bidding of the ruling elite who are safe from term limits. If you run your leg or even two legs for empire you are rewarded nicely- witness Obama now frolicking with Sir Branson.

      02/9/17 10:49 AM | Comment Link

    • Mitch said...

      44

      Crazy Bauer,

      News flash for you in LaLa Land…

      President Trump IS leading this nation…. And WILL be… For the next 4 years…. At least.

      Now…. Get used to that idea…. Quit whining…. Get on board…

      Be part of a solution….rather than another problem.

      M

      02/9/17 11:12 AM | Comment Link

    • Mitch said...

      45

      Fyi….

      Andrew Napolitano: What every American wants to know about federal judges

      Feb 09, 2017

      Last week, in a public courtroom in the federal courthouse in Seattle, the states of Washington and Minnesota — after suing President Donald Trump, alleging injury caused by his executive order that suspended the immigration of all people from seven foreign countries — asked a federal judge to compel the president and all those who work for him to cease enforcing the order immediately. After a brief emergency oral argument, the judge signed a temporary restraining order, which barred the enforcement of the presidents order everywhere in the United States.

      The president reacted with anger, referring to the judge as a so-called judge,” and immigrant rights groups praised the judicial intervention as a victory for the oppressed. The president meant, I think, that Judge James L. Robart had not acted properly as a judge by second-guessing him — that he had acted more like a politician; and the immigrant rights groups felt, I think, that the United States was once again a beacon of hope for refugees.

      Here is the back story.

      A 1952 federal statute permits the president to suspend the immigration status of any person or group whose entry into the United States might impair public health or safety or national security. Trump exercised that authority in accordance with the 1952 law when he signed his Jan. 27 order banning all immigration from the seven named countries.

      When the president exercises powers granted to him by the Constitution or federal statues or when Congress passes bills, one cannot simply sue the government in federal court because one does not like what has been done. That is so because the Constitution has preconditions for a lawsuit in federal court. One of those preconditions is what lawyers and judges call standing. Standing means that the plaintiff has alleged and can most likely show that the defendant has caused the plaintiff an injury in fact, distinct from all others not in the case.

       Hence, it is curious that the plaintiffs in the Seattle case were not people whose entry had been barred by Trumps order but rather the governments of two states, each claiming to sue in behalf of people and entities resident or about to be resident in them. The court should have dismissed the case as soon as it was filed because of long-standing Supreme Court policy that bars federal litigation alleging harm to another and permits it only for the actual injury or immediate likelihood of injury to the litigant.

      Nevertheless, the Seattle federal judge heard oral argument on the two states emergency application for a temporary restraining order against the president. During that oral argument, the judge asked a lawyer for the Department of Justice how many arrests of foreign nationals from the seven countries singled out by the president for immigration suspension there have been in the United States since 9/11. When the DOJ lawyer said she did not know, the judge answered his own question by saying, None.

      He was wrong.

      There have been dozens of people arrested and convicted in the United States for terrorism-related crimes since 9/11 who were born in the seven countries. Yet even if the judge had been correct, his question was irrelevant — and hence the answer meaningless — because it does not matter to a court what evidence the president relied on in this type of order. This is the kind of judicial second-guessing — substituting the judicial mind for the presidential mind — that is impermissible in our system. It is impermissible because the Constitution assigns to the president alone nearly all decision-making authority on foreign policy and because Congress has assigned to the president the power of immigration suspension as a tool with which to implement foreign policy.

      These rules and policies — the requirement of standing before suing and the primacy of the president in making foreign policy — stem directly from the Constitution. Were they not in place, then anyone could sue the government for anything and induce a federal judge to second-guess the president. That would convert the courts into a super-legislature — albeit an unelected, unaccountable, opaque one.

      I am not suggesting for a moment that the courts have no place here. Rather, they have a vital place. It is to say what the Constitution means, say what the statutes mean and determine whether the government has exercised its powers constitutionally and legally. It is not the job of judges to decide whether the government has been smart or prudent, though.

      One of the arguments made by the state of Washington to explain why it had standing was laughable. Washington argued that corporations located in Washington would suffer the irreparable loss of available high-tech-qualified foreign employees if the ban were upheld. Even if this were likely and even if it were provable, it would not establish injury in fact to the government of Washington. When pressed to reveal what entity Washington was trying to protect, it enumerated a few familiar names, among which was Microsoft.

      Microsoft? The government of the state of Washington is suing to protect Microsoft?! Microsoft could buy the state of Washington if Starbucks were willing to sell it.

      I jest to make a point. The rule of law needs to be upheld. Carefully paying attention to constitutional procedure protects personal freedom. In similar environments, the late Justice Antonin Scalia often remarked that much of what the government does is stupid but constitutional and that the courts only concern is with the latter.

      The DOJ is now challenging the Seattle restraining order in the 9th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals, and this case may make its way to the Supreme Court. Will federal judges be faithful to the rule of law? We shall soon find out.

      02/9/17 11:36 AM | Comment Link

    • RICH BAUER said...

      46

      What is the big deal about Conway telling U S to buy Ivanka’s shitty stuff? The Trumpster has been selling US a line of shit since he got in the White House, right MitchLisalot

      02/9/17 12:08 PM | Comment Link

    • Mitch said...

      47

      Crazy Bauer….

      Why do you hate Trump so much?

      M

      02/9/17 12:38 PM | Comment Link

    • teri said...

      48

      PVB,

      I took a break from commenting here for a couple of weeks because of the acrimony and bullying going on in your comment section. I returned on this thread only to find that Mitch has also returned and has resumed his diatribes against other posters unchecked.

      Unfortunately, I have to say I agree with Pitchfork’s assessment; this is not the place for me any longer. I don’t mind disagreements and polite arguing of different positions, but this is just uncomfortable, ugly, and not worth the time. Mitch is not only attacking people for things they might have said weeks ago (some of which he has misunderstood, some of which he has deliberately twisted), but he is now trying to turn commenters against one another. Oddly, he is addressing some of his comments to a poster who isn’t even on this thread, but I guess his is a preemptive attack, lest the unwary “Lisa” allow herself to accidentally find herself in agreement with one of what Mitch considers the Undesirables.

      I also take into consideration that Mitch took it upon himself to stalk Pitchfork around the internet and gave some links to other sites Pitch might have commented at, as part of his jeering at Pitch in another thread here at WeMeantWell. Those comments from other sites may or may not have been made by the same person who uses the internet name “Pitchfork” here, and were certainly irrelevant to anything said here, but more to the point, I find that sort of thing untoward and creepy. Perhaps Mitch will feel compelled at some point to turn me in to DHS or the FBI for “insufficient patriotism” or “criticizing the warrior class” or some such shit because I don’t agree with what our troops are doing in so many countries around the globe.

      I know you dislike moderating the speech here, which we all appreciate; however, you are allowing someone to coup your comment section and drive off people simply because they dislike Trump or have written one remark that he doesn’t agree with. You have allowed him to call other commenters racists, although there is no evidence at all that the people he is so labelling have any such tendencies. And you have allowed him to do that repeatedly. It’s gotten to the point where the “discussions” here are nothing but insipid name-calling.

      Best of luck. I will, of course, continue reading your articles, but this is not a good climate for discourse any more.

      – Teri

      Mitch,

      People may have good reason to be concerned about Trump. Not everyone will agree with you about him or the people he has surrounded himself with, nor will everyone be comfortable with some of his policies. I cannot recall you ever telling another commenter to suck it up and stop criticizing Obama because “he is our president”; but you find it appropriate to say such things in regards to Trump. I’m sorry you feel the need to resort to nastiness when confronted with a difference of opinion, but you do. So the comment section is yours. Have at it, bubba. You may eventually find yourself all alone here, talking to yourself, but perhaps that is your goal.

      One last thing: I find it very offensive that you made the specious claim that you are at least part black and then used that claim so as to play the “racist” accusation against others. While it is entirely possible that someone in your family line was black, it is simply not true (as you claimed) that the word “sharecropper” is equivalent to the word “slave”. Your grandfather certainly was not a slave, unless he was siring children into his nineties or hundreds. And you yourself would have to be very, very old for that math to work. As I said, in case I need to repeat it, it is possible you are black or part black or part purple. Whatever. But if you are basing that assessment entirely on the fact that someone in your actual family tree – as opposed to your adoptive tree – had “sharecropper” written on some census bureau report or someone mentioned that word anecdotally to you, you may have come to an erroneous conclusion. In any case, it is repugnant for you to use this claim, whether or not it is true, to randomly cudgel others with charges of racism.

      – Teri

      02/9/17 2:37 PM | Comment Link

    • Mitch said...

      49

      Teri…

      Oh… Sorry??.. Did you say something????

      PS….

      There is quite a lot of documentation to prove you wrong.

      M

      02/9/17 2:43 PM | Comment Link

    • RICH BAUER said...

      50

      Teri, if you don’t feed the troll, he will go away.

      02/9/17 3:28 PM | Comment Link

    • RICH BAUER said...

      51

      I’m here to irritate MitchLiesalot. Sometimes he interests me, but most of the time he is boring me. MItchLIesalot, step up your game.

      02/9/17 3:33 PM | Comment Link

    • Mitch said...

      52

      Bauer…

      Sometimes….just sometimes…. Your ok…

      And sorry….. Still jet lagged.

      M

      02/9/17 3:47 PM | Comment Link

    • Mitch said...

      53

      Bauer… Btw…

      Lisa… That’s not me… She’s just someone with their head on straight….who in one attacked by a couple of bullies after 2 comments.

      And… I despise bullies. … Which why I slap them whenever I can.

      M

      02/9/17 3:52 PM | Comment Link

    • John Poole said...

      54

      Addressed to everyone here. We have our differences but I think at the core of our existences we wish the best for others. There are monsters out there who we wish would self destruct but they -like us- were born as infants. They -I’d like to think-were born as innocents who were corrupted for some presetently unknown reason. That is a huge leap I know. But let us all in the name of Saint Rodney King try to “Get along”. We will have our differences but as long as we keep a conversation we may reach a consensus of what may work best for our species in this unfathomable cosmos. Thanks to PCB for keeping this forum open and operating on his dime. Has anyone offered to send him a buck?

      02/9/17 4:37 PM | Comment Link

    • Chuck said...

      55

      We should demand PVB to post a way for us to donate (posting,how and later a donate clicky thing would work for me)! Would an email possibly work? Peace all.

      02/9/17 5:06 PM | Comment Link

    • Mitch said...

      56

      John..

      Points to you.

      However….

      What you propose … I don’t think is possible as long as two sets of rules are being applied.

      M

      02/9/17 5:10 PM | Comment Link

    • Chuck said...

      57

      I only like a small amount of what I post. Sorry. Have a nice day! C

      02/9/17 5:10 PM | Comment Link

    • Mitch said...

      58

      JP..

      Example of the different mindsets…

      Work today… Inside

      02/9/17 5:39 PM | Comment Link

    • Mitch said...

      59

      That was weird…

      Ok…. JP..

      Work today…. Inside a retail business….. I was there working on the network..

      Dealing with the owner…

      Guy is literally crying…. Dry heaves Crying…..red eyes…. Tears down his face…..

      bordering on hysterical.

      Had to deactivate his facebook… Turned off his cable…. Stopped watching the news…

      Because he was so horrified at the Trump win….

      How do you reason with that Mentality????

      PS….

      I was adding to his network to allow for the 30% jump he has had in business since the 21st of January.

      M

      02/9/17 5:46 PM | Comment Link

    • RICH BAUER said...

      60

      U.S. federal appeals court on Thursday unanimously upheld a temporary suspension of President Donald Trump’s order that restricted travel from seven Muslim-majority countries.

      The 9th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals ruling came in a challenge to Trump’s order filed by the states of Washington and Minnesota. The U.S. Supreme Court will likely determine the case’s final outcome.

      Supreme Court is put on notice. Trump threatens to quit if ban is blocked.

      02/9/17 6:28 PM | Comment Link

    • RICH BAUER said...

      61

      And we don’t want that.

      02/9/17 7:10 PM | Comment Link

    • RICH BAUER said...

      62

      Trump: Finally,

      02/9/17 7:11 PM | Comment Link

    • RICH BAUER said...

      63

      The court did not expect the decision to be reversed. Reading between the lines, the court basically said the Trump Muslim ban really is singular in its sheer malevolent stupidity. There is no rhyme or reason for the countries listed (aside from the fact that countries in which Trump does business were left off the list).

      Trump mentioned 9/11 in his signing statement.

      As NBC News’ Peter Alexander tartly noted, “The 9/11 hijackers came from the Egypt, Saudi Arabia, the United Arab Emirates, UAE & Lebanon. None of those countries impacted by Executive Order.”

      And by banning Iraqi refugees, the Trump administration left our allies in the Iraq War hanging out to dry. One of those trapped by Trump’s Muslim ban had been a translator for the 101st Airborne for a decade. Another held up was the mother of an Iraqi translator who is currently a sergeant with the 82nd Airborne in Fort Bragg, North Carolina. The Los Angeles Times reported that when Muslims were detained at airports, veterans were quick to rush in to help.

      Trumped again. Get used to it, Demented Donald.

      02/9/17 7:23 PM | Comment Link

    • Mitch said...

      64

      Bauer…

      Read the federal code… The “ban”…. It is legal.

      Like it or not….. Or read what Judge Napolitano said.

      M

      02/9/17 7:27 PM | Comment Link

    • Mitch said...

      65

      Figures….. It would be Michigan…… Not surprising….
      At all….

      Early and often? 31 people voted twice in Michigan election

      Feb 09, 2017
      At least 31 people could face criminal charges after voting twice in Michigan in the fall election, an official said Thursday.

      Separately, the state Bureau of Elections said human error, not fraud or equipment failure, caused mismatches between the number of ballots cast in some Detroit precincts and the number of voters.

      The agency’s investigation followed a partial statewide recount of the presidential race, which raised questions about the safeguarding of ballots in Detroit. A judge stopped the recount after three days, although officials said it would not have changed President Donald Trump’s slim victory in Michigan over Hillary Clinton.

      Before the recount was halted, there was an attempt to recount ballots in 263 Detroit precincts. But 68 precincts didn’t qualify because the number of ballots didn’t match the number of people who showed up to vote.

      Some ballots, for example, were left in a tub below an electronic tabulator and not transferred to a secure box on election night. In one polling place, there were 300 voters but only 50 properly sealed ballots.

      While many precincts couldn’t be part of the recount, all ballots cast on Nov. 8 still were part of the final official result.

      “There was no pervasive fraud in our audit of Detroit,” said state elections director Chris Thomas, who instead cited “widespread performance issues” related to a lack of sufficient training for poll workers.

      He said his elections staff looked at 136 precincts and was able to balance the number of ballots and voters in 65 and greatly reduce mismatches in others.

      Thomas also reported that 31 Michigan residents voted twice, first with an absentee ballot and then in person. Their names were turned over to the attorney general’s office for possible prosecution. Voting twice, or even attempting to do so, is a felony.

      “It’s not acceptable,” Thomas said.

      Fourteen of the 31 were in Detroit. Officials believe Detroit poll workers didn’t catch the double votes because they weren’t given an updated list of voters who had used an absentee ballot.

      It’s not known which candidate got the votes. Ballots are anonymous.

      “There are processes in place to stop this. In these 31 cases, they didn’t work,” Thomas said.

      M

      02/9/17 7:30 PM | Comment Link

    • chuck said...

      66

      Quote of the day:
      “The word ‘I’ does not exist.”
      – Bruce Lee?

      02/9/17 7:48 PM | Comment Link

    • John Poole said...

      67

      Bauer- say America was invaded by advanced beings with the plan of taking over our territory. Some of us would throw in with them like the Iraqis threw in with the American invading force. I have no pity for those who joined with the invading force. They are purely opportunists with no deep loyalty to their nation.

      02/9/17 8:04 PM | Comment Link

    • Mitch said...

      68

      John…

      Think the word is…. “. Collaborators “.

      M

      02/9/17 8:12 PM | Comment Link

    • Mitch said...

      69

      Oh…. This is just brilliant….. Let’s give terrorists cover… To shoot from and hide behind….

      Probably coming to a neighborhood near you…. SOON ..

      ……..

      An 8-foot-tall reinforced glass barrier will be erected around the base of the Eiffel Tower, as security forces say that the iconic Paris landmark remains a top target for terrorists, following a series of attacks throughout France in the past two years.
      “The terror threat remains high in Paris and the most vulnerable sites, led by the Eiffel Tower, must be the object of special security measures,” said the assistant mayor for tourism, Jean-Francois Martins. “We have three aims – to improve the look, make access easier and strengthen the protection of visitors and staff.”

      The anti-ballistic fence will not just cover the steel structure itself, but the gardens surrounding it, and access will be restricted through fewer entry points, making it easier to monitor. Although visitors will have to pass through checkpoints to enter the forecourt, it will remain free.

      “All the work to secure the Eiffel Tower is being done in consultation with the Architectes des Bâtiments de France [the country’s architects’ association] so that it fits as well as possible in the neighborhood,” Martins said. “This is a necessity in terms of security, but it will also make it possible to re-establish a link between the forecourt of the monument and the gardens.”

      M

      02/9/17 8:18 PM | Comment Link

    • Kyzl Orda said...

      70

      John Poole – Im very sorry your son gets flak from other DS agents. Sorrier still, people work in our government and it’s just for the paycheck because they have zero understanding what our Constitution (and First Amendment) mean. And we’ve seen alot of that behavior too much the past few weeks because some folks are drunk on power and too foolish to read a damn memo or two.

      Teri – Sometimes, such actions are deliberately to drive people away. I hope you don’t go and I’m sure others feel the same. If you do, gonna miss your sage posts

      02/9/17 8:32 PM | Comment Link

    • Kyzl Orda said...

      71

      Thank you, 9th Circuit! But I’m concerned what the tea partiers will do now vis-a-vis back-door methods to get some aspects of the Muslim ban working again.

      Have to stay on top of the cockroaches. The monsignor at my parrish in DC spoke about the refugee ban and the need to be that one who ‘turns on the light.” He pointed out sometimes you go in a kitchen or room and turn on the light, then see the roaches scurry away. It’s important to be the one who turns on the light no matter how unpleasant.

      Thank you, Peter, for being one of those lamp lighters

      02/9/17 8:38 PM | Comment Link

    • RICH BAUER said...

      72

      Are you calling MitchLiesalot a cockroach? Cockroaches serve a purpose.

      02/9/17 8:43 PM | Comment Link

    • chuck said...

      73

      Peter, If you got rid of the comment section, I would go to your site every day to look for your articles. No need to have to update every day (unless you get sponsors, or donations)! Blow the whistle. There is a problem in the USA. Let’s work together. Kumbaya. “War Is A Racket” S.B.

      02/9/17 8:44 PM | Comment Link

    • RICH BAUER said...

      74

      “Rather than present evidence to explain the need for the Executive Order, the Government has taken the position that we must not review the decision at all. We disagree.”

      This is how you talk to the bad students in high school, Donald.

      02/9/17 8:45 PM | Comment Link

    • RICH BAUER said...

      75

      Chuck, I come here everyday looking for your intelligent contributions. I am still looking, peas brain.

      02/9/17 8:47 PM | Comment Link

    • RICH BAUER said...

      76

      FYI– Peter has already willed me We Meant Well when he gets too busy on the book signing circuit.

      02/9/17 8:51 PM | Comment Link

    • Mitch said...

      77

      Question…

      It is understood that Bush and Obama both did these “bans “, as well????

      Only difference this time is extreme “left ” hate…

      M

      02/9/17 9:43 PM | Comment Link

    • Mitch said...

      78

      A little history lesson…..

      “The budget should be balanced, the Treasury should be refilled, public debt should be reduced, the arrogance of officialdom should be tempered and controlled, and the assistance to foreign lands should be curtailed lest Rome become bankrupt. People must again learn to work, instead of living on public assistance.” –Cicero – 55 BC

      Figure out the quote…. And you will understand Trump….

      And the “right ”

      Another quote….

      “those that do not learn the lessons of the past…. Are doomed to repeat them in the future. “

      02/9/17 10:01 PM | Comment Link

    • Mitch said...

      79

      Ahhh… The power of rage and hate.

      http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-38909322

      02/9/17 10:21 PM | Comment Link

    • Mitch said...

      80

      John Poole,

      Good morning,

      Yesterday, you said ..
      ” John Poole on February 9, 2017 at 16:37 said:
      Addressed to everyone here. We have our differences but I think at the core of our existences we wish the best for others. There are monsters out there who we wish would self destruct but they -like us- were born as infants. They -I’d like to think-were born as innocents who were corrupted for some presetently unknown reason. That is a huge leap I know. But let us all in the name of Saint Rodney King try to “Get along”. We will have our differences but as long as we keep a conversation we may reach a consensus of what may work best for our species in this unfathomable cosmos …”

      I realized this morning, what is wrong with that, and other. ‘situations ‘

      What is the solution when you have self imposed … Janitors…internet cops….etc…use your own words….

      I call it .. vigilantism?

      Because…. That is exactly what has been occuring.

      M

      02/10/17 6:50 AM | Comment Link

    • Mitch said...

      81

      So….

      Now that resignations have been tendered…

      Time to be who I really am…..which is….. I’m good with evaluating both sides.

      . Bauer……. You’ll love this….(read all the way to the bottom ) Bauer… You said something yesterday that actually deserves a response. ( yes… I was shocked too )

      First…
      This….. If its true…..not some ‘mis-managed information ‘..( heard that one yesterday…wth ???)

      This was a MAJOR mistake….. Like people lose jobs and do serious time for. …. And if Trump knew…. Very bad for him.

      Espionage act says this is Very illegal

      https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/national-security-adviser-flynn-discussed-sanctions-with-russian-ambassador-despite-denials-officials-say/2017/02/09/f85b29d6-ee11-11e6-b4ff-ac2cf509efe5_story.html?utm_term=.fdec6d992ff7

      Bauer….. You referenced the “trump clothing line ” yesterday….

      Now…. I am by no means an expert…. But…. I do think… Trump coming out on twitter… Ranting about the Nordstrom -daughter thing….

      That is an impeachment offense…..

      Something to do with the president endorsed a specific product, goods or services.

      I’m waiting to see which side pushes the hardest on that. Because…. It is illegal.

      M

      02/10/17 7:09 AM | Comment Link

    • RICH BAUER said...

      82

      The judges seemed alarmed at the government’s brazenness.

      “The Government has taken the position that the President’s decisions about immigration policy, particularly when motivated by national security concerns, are unreviewable, even if those actions potentially contravene constitutional rights and protections,” the opinion read. “There is no precedent to support this claimed unreviewability, which runs contrary to the fundamental structure of our constitutional democracy.”

      Trumpsters: That is who we are.

      02/10/17 7:40 AM | Comment Link

    • Mitch said...

      83

      Bauer

      The “travel ban “…. Its still legal….. And……

      To challenge Trump on it is political suicide.

      If something happens….and with the way the US government operates…. It WILL happen…..

      ANYONE who challenges the ban will be destroyed….because it will become all “their fault “.

      Just one “incident “….. And the protesters… Political types… Wikipedia experts….pundits…. Self imposed exiles…. Everyone who was not in Trump’s corner is wrong….

      And Trump will have been absolutely right.

      Want to talk about setting the perfect stage for a dictator then?

      Just one incident of a “immigrant “… Refugee….. Insert whatever name….just one….and Trump wins….

      Senators, congressional…. Protesters… JUDGES….. Everyone will have been wrong.

      And Trump will have been RIGHT !!!

      So…….

      How hard do you think…. Especially if Trump is as evil as you believe……

      To arrange for that to happen?????

      After King… Kennedy…. 9/11….. Iraq… Afghanistan…. Yemen……the list is endless…..

      This is NOT the issue to fight Trump on…..

      M

      02/10/17 8:05 AM | Comment Link

    • John Poole said...

      84

      Kyzi Orda- my son joined DS because he believes in diplomacy over war. He says that a whole generation of hippie idealists abandoned public service and we have the government we have today as a result. I’ve explained why we turned our backs. He is hopeful that America can make a soft landing. He served in Libya and Russia so he knows notable contrasts to the USA.

      02/10/17 8:13 AM | Comment Link

    • Mitch said...

      85

      Btw…… Bauer…

      That goes for the wall too…..

      One “immigrant “…..sneak across the border……. One terror act…..one US citizen killed…. Maybe a kid…. A school….daycare…..a center for disabled…. A zoo….. Class trip……Something so helpless….so Horrific that it defies description…

      And Trump is set for amendments removing term limits… And you have your dictator.

      Remember 9/11.

      02/10/17 8:16 AM | Comment Link

    • Kyzl Orda said...

      86

      John Poole – Good for him and I hope he stays in the gov. I read (supposedly, who knows with the fake news) a large number of government employees are expected to leave this government because of their opposition to the politicans’ policies – that would be a grave problem really.

      It means opportunities to bring in the extreme right – like how they brought in the Heritage Foundation and arch con young republicans and messed up Iraq’s bureaucracy

      02/10/17 10:34 AM | Comment Link

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