• How to Respond to Your Friends Who Think the NSA Surveillance is No Big Deal

    June 10, 2013

    Tags: , , , ,
    Posted in: Democracy

    This piece originally appeared on the Huffington Post.

    NSA surveillance is legal.

    True, as was slavery in the U.S., the Holocaust under Nazi Germany, Apartheid in South Africa and so forth. Laws mean very little when they are manipulated for evil.

    I’m not doing anything wrong, so why should I care? If you’re doing nothing wrong, then you’ve got nothing to hide!

    See above. The definition of “wrong” can change very quickly.

    I trust Obama on this.

    All of your personal data is in the hands of the same people that run the TSA, the IRS and likely the DMV. Do you trust all of them all the time to never make mistakes or act on personal grudges or political biases? Do you believe none of them would ever sell your data for personal profit ever? In fact, the NSA is already sharing your data with, at minimum, British intelligence. That’s a foreign government that your American government is informing on you to, FYI. Also, the alleged leaker, Edward Snowden, worked for a private contracting company and had access to your data.

    I really trust Obama on this.

    OK, let’s stipulate that Obama will never do anything bad with the data. But once collected, your personal data exists forever, and is available to whomever in the future can access it, using whatever technologies come to exist. Trusting anyone with such power is foolish.

    Well, there are checks and balances in the system to protect us.

    See above. Also, the king of all checks and balances in this case, the Fourth Amendment, has been treated by the government like a used Kleenex. As for the Foreign Intelligence and Surveillance Court (FISA), set up to review government requests for wiretapping, it approved all 1,789 requests submitted to it in 2012. The FBI made 15,229 National Security Letter requests in 2012 on Americans. None of those even require FISA rubber-stamping. And here’s DOJ trying to keep classified a court ruling that says it might have acted unconstitutionally.

    More importantly, if all the NSA’s activities are legal, why not allow them to be tested openly and unambiguously in public, in front of the Supreme Court. After all, if you’ve done nothing wrong there is nothing to hide. Unfortunately, when Amnesty International tried to bring such a case before the Court, the case was denied because Amnesty could not prove it was subject to monitoring– that was a secret!– and thus was denied standing to even bring the suit.

    Many people believe the surveillance violates both the Fourth Amendment protections against search, and the First Amendment protections on the right to peaceably assemble, online in this instance.

    There are 300 million Americans, producing a gazillion emails and Skype chats and Instagrams every day. Nobody cares about my boring stuff.

    Mining all that data is just a matter of how many computers are devoted to the task today, and using better technology in the future will make it even easier.

    But the TV says they collect only “Metadata” so I’m safe.

    Metadata is the index to all the content NSA is already sweeping up. NSA is able to record say 24 hours worth of Verizon phone calls easy enough. With the Metadata, they can then easily locate any particular call within that huge chunk of otherwise streaming data. Metadata can also provide geolocation information to track your physical movements, among other things. It is very important.

    Distasteful as this all is, it is necessary to keep us safe. It’s for our own good.

    The United States, upholding to our beautiful Bill of Rights, has survived (albeit on a sometimes bumpy road) two world wars, the Cold War and innumerable challenges without a massive, all-inclusive destruction of our civil rights. Keep in mind that the Founders created the Bill of Rights, point-by-point, specifically to address the abuses of power (look up the never-heard-from-again Third Amendment) they experienced under an oppressive British government. A bunch of angry jihadis, real and imagined, seems a poor reason to change that system. Prior to 9/11 we did not have a mass-scale terror act (by foreigners; American Citizen Timothy McVeigh pulled one off.) Since 9/11 we have not had a mass-scale terror attack. We can say 9/11 was a one-off, an aberration, and cannot be a justification for everything the government wishes to do. There is also the question of why, if the NSA is vacuuming up everything, and even sharing that collection abroad, this all needs to be kept secret from the American people. If it is for our own good, the government should be proud to tell us what they are doing for us, instead of being embarrassed when it leaks. If you’re not doing anything wrong then you’ve got nothing to hide, right?

    Terrorist are everywhere.

    Doubtful. No suicide bombers in shopping malls, no hijackings. How many Americans have died in the past twelve years due to terrorism in the U.S.? At the same time, despite all this intrusion into our lives and violations of the Fourth Amendment, the system completely missed the Boston bombers, two of the dumbest, least sophisticated bro’ terrorists in the world. Those two practiced no tradecraft at all. Maybe all this surveillance isn’t really about stopping terrorists and is more about generic spying on us all, using a fake argument of 100% security at the cost of 0% privacy? At the same time, we do have a problem with gun nuts committing mass shootings that have mowed down Americans in numbers far beyond terrorism since 9/11, but no one seems concerned about using tech to stop that. So much has been justified (torture, spying) by the so-called ticking time bomb scenario but there has never been shown an actual ticking time bomb scenario in real life.

    Protecting America comes first.

    But protecting what from what is the question. If instead of spending trillions and trillions of dollars on spying and domestic surveillance we spent that same money on repairing our infrastructure and improving our schools, wouldn’t that more directly create a stronger America?

    I just don’t care.

    Fine, enjoy your television. Just don’t be surprised when you’re woken from your deep sleep one night by a knock on the door.

    BONUS: If you’re Edward Snowden, the alleged leaker, and you have some interest in not spending the rest of your life in a U.S. supermax prison, why oh why are you in Hong Kong? Hong Kong has an active extradition agreement with the U.S. Why are you not in Ecuador, Beijing, or maybe Iceland?

    Snowden has the guts to do what the government does not have the guts to do: bring the NSA’s activities into daylight, for all to see. As a whistleblower myself, and meeting many others from Ellsberg to Drake, I know it takes enormous courage to do what Snowden did, and the willingness to give up everything– life, freedom, everything– for a good bigger than yourself. If that is not a definition of patriotism nothing else can be.

    BONUS BONUS: My interview with Agency France Press on Snowden and whistleblowing.

    Related Articles:

    Copyright © 2017. All rights reserved. The views expressed here are solely those of the author(s) in their private capacity. Follow me on Twitter!

  • Recent Comments

    • Rich Bauer said...


      No Big Deal: The Chinese president told Obama that China would stop spying on Americans when Obama stopped spying on Americans.

      06/10/13 1:09 PM | Comment Link

    • meloveconsullongtime said...


      And then there’s Thomas More’s argument against jettisoning the rule law for expediency:


      06/10/13 1:56 PM | Comment Link

    • Kyzl Orda said...


      It is going to be fascinating as the next several days unfold following what happens. What is also disturbing is captured in one of today’s Post articles (‘Code Name ‘Verax’) SNowden tells the reporter:

      “The U.S. intelligence community, he wrote, “will most certainly kill you if they think you are the single point of failure that could stop this disclosure and make them the sole owner of this information.”

      That is disturbing and should be further investigated. The Post mentioned in this or another article it also spoke to intelligence agencies before releasing 4 of 21 or 22 slides of this guy’s powerpoint. Did Woodward and Bernstein also clear their investigative work with any intel agencies or other government offices before the Post released their work?? Sheesh


      06/10/13 2:34 PM | Comment Link

    • wemeantwell said...


      Anyone who shares with the WaPo is on a suicide mission. The paper is so closely tied into the government that you can’t see daylight between them. Watergate was an aberration that WaPo has been dining out on ever since.

      06/10/13 2:39 PM | Comment Link

    • meloveconsullongtime said...


      Re “Nobody cares about my boring stuff”: A further answer to this is “six degrees of separation.” Even the minority of people with no skeletons in their closets, usually have associations with those who do, within one or two degrees of separation. That’s why the Stasi and the NKVD – and China’s organs today – could and can blackmail just about anyone they choose, at least within their own borders.

      Speaking of which, about Snowden’s choice of Hong Kong, actually China has the ultimate power to veto extradition from Hong Kong. So, actually he has deposited his fate into China’s hands, a regime even more hostile to civil liberty than Obama’s. If the Chinese do rescue him from extradition, he will spend the rest of his life as a captive and servant of the Chinese Communist Party, who will not be neither sympathetic nor merciful to him. In that light, he’s either a fool or else has already been compromised by a hostile foreign power (probably but not necessarily China), and one way or the other something doesn’t smell right about his choice of Hong Kong.

      06/10/13 2:39 PM | Comment Link

    • meloveconsullongtime said...


      Further re my above comment about China having the ultimate power over Snowden’s fate – and China’s government being unsympathetic to him – I’m reminded of what happened to the American defector, Army Private Joe Dresnok who deserted and crossed the DMZ into North Korea around 50 years ago and spent the rest of his life there as a tool for North Korean propaganda. Shortly after his arrival in North Korea – after they decided not to kill him but to use him – he and several other American defectors tried to appeal to the Soviet Union for political asylum, and the Soviets understandably told him to get lost, seeing him not only as a traitor to his own country (thus treacherous) but also a useless one who then betrayed his host country, doubly-treacherous and stupid. Treason is a one-shot deal, if you sell your soul to one of your country’s enemies, you can’t resell it to another.

      And although China is nothing like North Korea – at least China is a good place for non-treasonous Americans to visit and reside for a while – it’s madness for an American to entrust his life and liberty to the Chinese Communists after enraging his own country for ANY reason! Even a reason which seems righteous at face value – because the Chinese Communists don’t give a damn about righteousness.

      So, regardless of his motivations, his choice of Hong Kong was objectively mad. And unless he’s clinically insane, there’s something else going on here.

      06/10/13 2:57 PM | Comment Link

    • pitchfork said...


      quote:”And unless he’s clinically insane, there’s something else going on here.”unquote

      Oh, there’s something else going on here alright..Obomination’s..”hope and change”. right. Hope and change. geeeezusHfuckingchrist.

      Right at this moment.. I’m sick to my stomach. Mostly for believing this lying sack of shit when I voted for him in 2008. But also from shame. Shame for my stupidity. Shame for this country. Shame to be an Amerikan. Shame for my inability to summon the depth of courage this young man displayed for all the world to see.

      At the same time, I’m enraged too. Unadulterated, rip their heart out, spit in their face, tear their head and arms off and burn them alive rage. Now I know what the patriots who faced the British felt. They were the enemy. And now..it’s US who are the USG’s enemy. So be it.

      And now…it’s time. Time to abandon all that I’ve been led to believe about America. It no longer exists. Not the America I knew as a boy. In it’s place, we’ve become a nation of Torturers. Murderers. Spies. War mongers. Empire. Death and destruction War worshiping video game
      playing psychopaths. And it makes vomit.


      06/10/13 4:02 PM | Comment Link

    • pitchfork said...


      meanwhile, the DoS Cartel does it’s thing…


      for fucks sake…whudda thunk?

      I’d kill for a rolling eyes smiley.

      06/10/13 4:15 PM | Comment Link

    • pitchfork said...


      ps..quote:”How to Respond to Your Friends Who Think the NSA Surveillance is No Big Deal”unquote

      PVB..I don’t give a flying fuck what any of my “friends” think anymore. In fact,..those who think it’s “no big deal”…ain’t my friends anymore.

      06/10/13 4:25 PM | Comment Link

    • meloveconsullongtime said...


      @ Pitchfork:

      1. Although I have reservations about Snowden’s motivations, I do not doubt the reality of the Obaman crimes he has exposed;

      2. As for this bit you wrote: “So listen up NSA. FUCK YOU (etc rant Fuck etc…), kindly allow me to offer you this as a more laconic and acute version of what both you and I want to say to the Obaman Empire’s organs:


      06/10/13 4:39 PM | Comment Link

    • meloveconsullongtime said...


      PS to Pitchfork, re my above comment and the link:

      The song to which I linked, titled “Fuck You”, can be considered as a kind of a gargoyle. A gargoyle song, by which I mean, in medieval Catholic cathedrals, gargoyles were sculpted upon the outer walls to frighten away the devils, by showing the devils that what’s inside the Holy place is more powerful than anything the devils can do. And in the Devil’s eyes, everything Good and Truthful is frightening! Which is why the State Department is afraid of PVB…

      06/10/13 5:29 PM | Comment Link

    • Rich Bauer said...


      If Clapper thinks we should trust the NSA or any government agency to do the right thing, he is bigger fool than he looks. Meanwhile, back at the Flying Monkey ranch —


      Bauer wonders who could be the DS pervert in Beirut.

      06/10/13 7:27 PM | Comment Link

    • Rich Bauer said...


      State Department spokesperson Jen Psaki:

      “We hold all employees to the highest standards.” (this would come as a complete surprise to the majority of State employees)

      “Diplomatic Security has taken the further step of requesting additional review by outside experienced law enforcement officers on top of the OIG inspection so that officers with law enforcement experience can make expert assessments about our current procedures.” (like a DS agent shooting a McDonald’s customer while drunk or another DS agent shooting off his mouth to a real law enforcement officer and defaming the character of a State employees)

      About those “highest standards”…

      06/10/13 7:40 PM | Comment Link

    • Kyzl Orda said...


      Thank you, Peter.

      I am happy the Guardian got to do scooping. Maybe that is why the Post decided to publish something,avoid being totally trumped and miss some profit margin. Guess the story was too big for them and the Times to ignore. The only ray of hope is the Times ran a article a week or two ago how the Brits are increasing their footprint in American media. As long as it isnt murdock, i hope some life is breathed into our complacent 4th or 5th estate, or whatever it is supposed to be

      On security abuses –

      Dear Rich,

      The link below is a year old, but problems always have a backstory, they dont just evolve overnight.

      i think this is a FSO blog and its interesting what it says about DS abuses. The post waffles on First Amendment and puts “loyalty to protect classified information” ahead of the Constitution and civil service oath, but, by and large, the points raised are relevant in “A Teachable Moment” (6/4/12, toward the bottom of the link):

      “Simply put, State is the worst abuser of the security-clearance process in the US Government. It has taken a process that should be used solely for assessing whether or not a person has sufficient integrity and loyalty to protect classified information, and turned it into a routine method for harassing dissenters, skirting EEO laws, and ridding the Department of anyone that anyone at any level in the hierarchy wants to fire, when no basis exists for doing so legally.

      To be fair, other agencies do this too. Once in a while, in very rare instances. But only State does so as a routine matter of course.

      The differences between State and every other agency are simple. Other agencies have oversight and quality-control mechanisms in place, and State does not. Despite years of complaints, State has steadfastly refused to implement even the most basic quality-control mechanisms mandated by law, much less the mechanisms suggested by AFSA and CFSO. This failure to implement basic management controls has been abetted by what is at least tacit complicity by State’s highest-level managers and its Inspector General, which have studiously ignored pressure to address the issue. ”


      06/10/13 9:18 PM | Comment Link

    • exiledfsmonkey said...


      Finally the stench in the closet is starting to get noticed. How many DoS personnel have been abused by DS?! People have been robbed of months, even years, of their lives based on the whims of a few assholes with badges. These same assholes are also complicit in actively hiding (destroying? ignoring?) the evidence that might help end this misery for employees accused of misconduct (or criminal conduct) originating from he/she said situations. You want to see DoS at its finest, just get accused of something (no matter how bullshit a charge) and suddenly everyone has the goods on you. Or better yet, your so called friends give up on you. Now you’re sitting in an office or at home doing nothing while some new agent (or a ‘senior’ agent with a hard on for you) does nothing on your case (or does a whole lot to screw you to the wall one limb at a time). THIS is DoS at its finest. Ask around. Men and women, rotting away doing nothing for six, twelve, fourty-eight months or more because cowards piss on the rule of law and investigative procedures. So yeah, DS is from the government and ain’t here to help. Soon, what went around will come around. Actually, who are we kidding. Move along…

      06/10/13 11:33 PM | Comment Link

    • John Poole said...


      MLCLT. You’re right about most Americans having some indirect connection with someone they care about who might have something to “hide” and hence we can easily be intimidated by the American Stasi. It is no longer a question of American Exceptionalism except as a question of whether we are exceptionally paranoid as a nation and so weak of mind that we let fear guide our every decision. I say we are-an unfortunate conclusion.

      06/11/13 1:34 AM | Comment Link

    • meloveconsullongtime said...


      Now the email address I used to email PVB a few hours ago, has been totally shut down. Not a password problem, just totally shut down. Gone.

      I guess the American spooks didn’t like my song.

      06/11/13 6:18 AM | Comment Link

    • kyzl orda said...


      Dear Exiled, when i saw first the OIG report and then that blog linked above i thought at last, a window. Finally, this problem is getting light shed on it. Yes, there are others who’ve experienced the misuse of DS and lack of firewall

      06/11/13 6:26 AM | Comment Link

    • meloveconsullongtime said...


      Your overlords command you to calm down about all this. Your tension will be exterminated! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e59guruVL4o

      06/11/13 7:35 AM | Comment Link

    • John Poole said...


      I can see a daily reality TV show where Snowden is hunted down with viewer help. Live feeds to the homeland of him being pursued across the globe. Viewers can send in hints of where he might be and what to do with him when he is caught. Clapper will be at the call center taking special calls and thanking you for your patriotism. This is not cynical ranting. It is already happening.

      06/11/13 12:25 PM | Comment Link

    • Rich Bauer said...


      Listening to the useful idiots in Congress who believe the SPYS R US programs won’t be used against US, remember these are the same idiots who could not imagine the damage the Wall Street derivative programs would cause. As the US middle class is systematically hallowed out by Wall Street, the NSA Domestic Spy program will be used to intimidate the peasants.

      As for the idiots who elect these useful idiots (the majority of Americans reportedly STILL approve of the NSA spy program), I think HL Mencken understated their stupidity. Yes, America, you’ve proved once again the dumbest country on the planet.

      06/11/13 12:39 PM | Comment Link

    • meloveconsullongtime said...


      @ Mr Bauer, your scenario hearkens back to the great terrors of Stalin and Mao, both of whom used political terror to distract attention from the enforced impoverishment of their nations.

      06/11/13 1:43 PM | Comment Link

    • Rich Bauer said...


      Let US not forget der Fuehrer. The Germans sure as hell haven’t.

      The majority of Americans may not care about domestic spying but the Germans, who have seen this picture before, do. German chancellor, Angela Merkel, is expected to grill Obama next week, during a much-awaited summit in Berlin. Peter Schaar, Germany’s federal data protection commissioner, said it was unacceptable for the US authorities to have access to EU citizens’ data, and that the level of protection is lower than that guaranteed to US citizens.

      While approving the violation of American citizens’ rights to privacy, imagine Obama agrees to restrict NSA access to German citizens’ communications. After the Wall Street derivatives program crippled the German economy, there is little trust of US in Berlin.

      06/11/13 2:03 PM | Comment Link

    • Rich Bauer said...


      “WE are all Berliners.” – some idealistic crackpot

      06/11/13 2:04 PM | Comment Link

    • pitchfork said...


      melove said….

      quote” 2. As for this bit you wrote: “So listen up NSA. FUCK YOU (etc rant Fuck etc…), kindly allow me to offer you this as a more laconic and acute version of what both you and I want to say to the Obaman Empire’s organs:”unquote

      Well melove, I’m not a cultured person, and with all due respect..that video is the silliest thing I’ve ever seen..and I’ve been a musician for 50 yrs.

      This is more like what I had in mind

      Killing in the Name….Rage Against the Machine..


      they were “dead” on. “Fuck you, I won’t do what you tell me.”

      Rejection of illegitimate authority is the engine of human progress, of social progress. And it rocks. This regime is now illegitimate and I reject it with all my soul.

      06/11/13 2:29 PM | Comment Link

    • Rich Bauer said...


      Speaking of JFK, while he was screwing Marilyn Monroe he didn’t have time to fuck US.

      06/11/13 2:43 PM | Comment Link

    • pitchfork said...


      As this abomination unfolded this last few days, something from the past was tickling my brain, as if there was already an example of the potential Snowden so eloquently described.
      And then it dawned on me. Arthur Silber. He knew. He always does….

      “Mrs. Hamilton.” She stopped; she and Joanna turned to him. “Yes?” She didn’t look at all frightened any longer. It usually happened that way. It always surprised him.

      “I’m afraid there is one more thing. After we’d become aware of you because of all those comments and emails, we did some further checking. Just routine stuff. But it turned up some donations you’ve been making regularly to a few charities. Two of those charities appear on the list of organizations we’ve designated as terrorist groups.”

      “What are you talking about? I don’t give money to terrorist groups.”

      “I realize that. You thought you were donating to charities. But the charities are fronts for terrorist organizations. And you’ve made donations to them regularly for years. And it wouldn’t matter so much, except that we recently received intelligence indicating that one of those terrorist organizations is planning a major attack right here in the city. It’s something big, so stopping the attack has been given the highest priority. We have to do everything possible to stop it, and to stop everyone who has any connection to it. Any connection at all. I’ve checked and rechecked all of this with the main office. We have no choice, not if we want to protect innocent American lives.”

      He said all this with great calm and deliberation. He wanted to be sure she understood. Not that it mattered, he told himself again. But still. He saw the color drain from her face. She gripped Joanna’s hand with all her strength. He saw that, too. She understood.

      “To stop everyone …” Her voice trailed into nothingness.

      “Yes. Everyone.”

      “But … but we’re in the park. Someone could come by at any moment.”

      “No one ever comes here, except you. And Joanna. I can’t tell you how sorry I am that Joanna is with you. There wasn’t any other way to do it. But Joanna … well. Unavoidable collateral damage. Awful.”

      He looked genuinely pained. She thought, He still has a kind face. How can he have a kind face? In the next moment, he took his hand out of his pocket and raised the gun.”


      youbetcha..if you’ve done nothing wrong, you’ve got nothing to worry about.

      06/11/13 3:15 PM | Comment Link

    • pitchfork said...


      meanwhile..the Benghazi/CIA thing continues to leak out drip by stinking drip…

      “We need to ask a lot of people in the administration, including Susan Rice, Hillary Clinton and others: Were we shipping arms to Turkey? And, was that why the ambassador was there in Benghazi? And why the CIA annex was there?” Mr. Paul said


      CIA??? Annex? Gunrunning? Torture?…naaaaaw..after all…Hillary said so..


      these scumbags never cease to fucking amaze me.

      06/11/13 3:55 PM | Comment Link

    • Patricia Lawler said...


      Pitchfork said,
      “As this abomination unfolded this last few days, something from the past was tickling my brain, as if there was already an example of the potential Snowden so eloquently described.
      And then it dawned on me. Arthur Silber. He knew. He always does….”

      Pitch, you are right on. His application of precise historical perspective is enlightening and I anticipate his next post w/very mixed emotions.

      06/11/13 4:36 PM | Comment Link

    • pitchfork said...


      Patricia Lawler said…

      quote:”Pitch, you are right on. His application of precise historical perspective is enlightening and I anticipate his next post w/very mixed emotions.”unquote

      Thanks. Your analysis is dead on too. Every time I read Arthur, I have to re-examine my perspective on things he writes about. And his latest in a perfect example, as it appears there is something going on in the Snowden story that is..well..just not right. And I might be “one of those” who jumped in the firestorm a little too soon. However, no matter which direction this story takes, one thing is for sure…Clapper has perjured himself…big time. To Congress. Which for me has already led to some astounding revelations. For instance, Clapper was a BoozAllen director before his tenure with the USG. But more importantly, a little slip in an article on his testimony in front of Wyden, related the fact that BoozAllen is majority owned by non-other than one of the worlds largest investment firms…The Carlyle Group. Just think, an investment firm owning a US government intelligence contractor..who just happens to ..well, I think you get my drift. Coincidence?

      right. Look up what Carlyle owns, and I think you might begin to wonder. I believe now, there IS something going on…much deeper than anyone can fathom. In that light, I now understand Katherine Austin Fitts book even more than I did before. The Aristocracy is alive and well..and will KILL you if you enlighten the world to theirs.

      06/11/13 6:57 PM | Comment Link

    • Rich Bauer said...


      Who is watching what the Watchers watch? The Spy guys of course; DoD following State’s practice advising their children not to watch what everyone else in the world can:


      06/11/13 9:08 PM | Comment Link

    • JVC said...


      My experience w/federal managers tells me nothing comes to pass w/o all of them banding together against their given target. To a man and woman they are weaklings, spineless, rudderless and a metaphor for the current state of the USG morass.
      I am sad to hear of DS as viewed by non-1811 DoS employees. As an outsider I always thought they had a cool job but it sounds like they’re the Jr. grade Gestapo.
      To PVB… I read your book & have followed this blog. I am an independent/conservative type myself. It’s interesting for me to watch your continuing evolution of and that of the readership of WMW. I would bet most of the contributors here voted for BHO in ’08 & possibly ’12, in the latter case, believing he was the lesser evil. I guess for those of us on the right, I am still incredulous as to how any of you ever believed him for a second… Not that he wasn’t sincere or well spoken… But by virtue of his lack of a resume, his softness, his overwhelming appeal to what I see as the largest voting block in this country: well heeled liberal urban whites and down and out urban minorities… Both groups insistent for their various reasons that only by and through centralized and apparently, enormous federal Government, are we ever going to be able to move forward as a species.
      What’s happening now… State, IRS, ATF, NSA, you name it, is an outcome of the arrogance that comes with power and the ennui and indolence of a citizenry that allows that power to grow and dominate exponentially.
      Additionally, your comments on firearms are ill served as mark my words, at the end of the day, the only thing that’s going to afford us any freedom from Pelosi, Schumer, Clinton, the NSA and all the rest is the umpteen millions of firearms, unregisterd, in the hands of people who are willing to put down their iPhones and resist tyranny.
      Reference the DOJ’s own website, the NRA, Wiki, or who ever you like and you will see there are still MORE deaths by automobile in this country than by malicious use of firearms each year. I would strongly encourage you, after the next book, or as time permits, to start getting down w/the gun. I carry one for a living, I carry one for sport and food. My carriage and proficiency with The Gun… Along w/millions like me in and out of law enforcement, is why I’m not too concerned about wayward liberal politicians jamming politically correct taxes, ideologies, surveillance drones or any other nonsense down my throat. This too shall pass. Jim Morrison famously growled…”They’ve got the guns but…we’ve got the numbers…” Well, out here in the sticks… We got the guns and we got the numbers…

      06/12/13 3:46 AM | Comment Link

    • kyzl orda said...


      Dear JVC,

      The problem is the bureacracy misuses the office of DS. ALot of DS agents are 20 somethings. They are just robots. they follow orders given to them. They dont ask questions. They probably would have a interesting job, if they werent misused to settle administrative matters that have nothing to do with security.

      That is just old fashioned abuse of power, coming from higher up in the State bureaucracy. It’s very hard to have your due process and provide material to back your story, when you are banned from entering your worksite and the people who made the claims dont have to bother putting evidence together.

      Sorry to say the problems didnt start with this presidency but goes back some. This administration was foolish to keep on alot of people from two prior administrations who have no business being in anyone’s government, in addition to failing to address key areas in our government/society. It’s gotten very hard to differentiate one party from the other. They actually have too much in common. It’s kind of funny watching Congressionals now run for cover, claiming they have had briefings on Prism while giving conflicting information. A few brave souls have said there have been no briefings for them. So much for ‘everyone’ being part of the review process.

      I dont really get in this debate going on after Sandy Hook why the Fourth Amendment is suddenly at issue and the idea of a database of gun checks was nixed for claimed privacy concerns yet at the same time conservatives are saying its ok if the NSA taps our private and intimate communications. It gets more complicated when the same conservatives decry expansion of government lol. There is a really bizarre set of contradictions there. If i want privacy from the government, does this mean I should buy a gun??

      06/12/13 6:12 AM | Comment Link

    • JVC said...


      @ KO, you make some very interesting points. I think for the majority of gun enthusiasts such as myself, firearms ownership is the red line, the alpha and the omega. There is no other issue, no other human right so fundamental as the right to self defense be it against the tyranny of an assailant trying to push you down to the ground or a government that wants you to walk into a gas chamber… Private citizens owning firearms are the first and last hurdle to a gov that wants to own it’s citizenry, as most governments, sooner or later, are want to do. The framers understood this having recently excised themselves of their own tyranny, with guns no less. Our constitution is one of the few in this world that guarantees this right, along w/a few other essential rights, that in it’s totality, is, as the Economist Magazine wrote recently, “a secular miracle”. As such we gun owners have assembled an organization that believes this as much as we do and we’re not joking. We really mean, “Pry it from my cold, dead hands”. As this tendency towards gov intrusion expands you will begin to see the NRA weighing in on tangential issues i.e. domestic spying, etc., as these actions are symptomatic of a gov that is overstepping it’s contract w/The People but the NRAls first issue and concern is the second amendment, not the first. For that we have the ACLU, another outstanding organization. I would encourage you to belong to both. Though liberals still don’t get it, I think the issue is beginning to clarify as we are starting to see Animal Farm come alive in this country. Frightening. You observe correctly and ironically that to not wind up on a watch list you need to ba firearm owner. Check that up to the resolve of firearm owners, supporters and sympathetic politicians who understand what’s at play here. Concientious firearm owners are among the most politically active in the American polity. For good reason… We know what it is we have to lose. From my standpoint the loss of 1st and 4th amendment freedoms is so probable as it affects the general public and I just don’t think the general public really gives a damn about much else than the corporate vanity of their lives…staying ontop of the newest trends, gossip, vanity, etc. We get the leadership we deserve. Factor into this the heavy LE/military demographic base of firearms ownership, the rural/urban divide, yup… It’s gonna get interesting but I think this bullwark of gun owners is going to be what keeps the gov at bay. Not iPhones, The Colbert Report or good intentions.

      06/12/13 3:12 PM | Comment Link

    • Kyzl Orda said...


      The only gun I’ve ever handled is a water gun, lol

      06/13/13 6:36 AM | Comment Link

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