• Does Free College Threaten Our All-Volunteer Military?

    September 27, 2016

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    Posted in: Military

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    Does free college threaten our all-volunteer military? That is what writer Benjamin Luxenberg, on military blog War on the Rocks says. But the real question goes deeper than Luxenberg’s practical query, striking deep into who we are as a nation.

    Unlike nearly every other developed country, which offer free or low cost higher education (Korea’s flagship Seoul National University runs about $12,000 a year, around the same as Oxford), in America you need money to go to college. You need the bucks for tuition and books, and for most students, you need the bucks to not work full-time for a couple of years. Typical of America’s top end schools, Harvard charges $63,000 for tuition, room, board and fees. That’s more than a quarter of a million dollars for a degree. Even a state school wants $40,000 a year.

    Right now there are only a handful of paths to higher education in America: have well-to-do parents; be low-income and smart to qualify for financial aid, take on crippling debt, or…

    Or join the military.

    The Post-9/11 GI Bill provides up to $20,000 per year for tuition, along with an adjustable living stipend. In Cambridge, Massachusetts, where Harvard is located, that stipend is $2,800 per month. There is also a books and supplies stipend. Universities participating in the Yellow Ribbon Program make additional funds available without affecting the GI Bill entitlement. Some 75 percent of those who enlisted said they did so to obtain educational benefits.

    And in that vein, Luxenberg raises the question of whether the free (Bernie Sanders) or lower cost (Hillary Clinton) college education is a threat to America’s all-volunteer military. If so many people join up to get that college money, if college was free or cheaper, would they still enlist?

    It is a practical question worth asking, but raises more serious issues in its trail. If people are enlisting in significant part because college tuition is not affordable, does that imply tuition costs need to stay high to help keep the ranks filled? That an unequal college costs playing field helps sustain our national defense?

    Of course motivation to join the service is often multi-dimensional. But let’s look a little deeper, and ask what does it say about our nation when we guarantee affordable higher education to only a slim segment of our population. About seven percent of all living Americans were in the military at some point. Less than 0.5 percent of the American population currently serves. Why do we leave the other 99.95 percent to whatever they can or can’t scrape together on their own?

    The issue of money always comes up, and was used by Hillary Clinton to knock down some of Bernie Sanders’ education proposals. Donald Trump may bring up the same question in the upcoming debates about Clinton’s more modest proposals.

    Money matters, but what the country can get for its money is also important. Let’s round off the military higher education benefit, tuition and living stipend, to $53,000 a year. An F-35 fighter plane costs $178 million.

    Dropping just one plane from inventory generates enough money for 3,358 years of college money. We could even probably survive as a nation if we didn’t buy four or five of the planes. A lot of people who now find college out of reach could go to school, even more if we reduced the stipend to where the difference could realistically be made up with 20 hours of minimum wage work a week.

    The final question many people will be asking at this point is one of entitlement. What did those civilians do that makes it so the United States should give them college money?

    Leaving aside the good idea of expanding “service” to include critical non-military possibilities, the answer is nothing. Nothing, but maybe it is more important than that.

    Security is defined by much more than a standing military (and that does not even touch the question of how say an eight year occupation of Iraq made America more secure.) The United States, still struggling to transition from a soot and steel industrial base that collapsed in the 1970s to something that can compete in the 21st century, can only do so through education. More smart people equals more people who can take on the smarter jobs that drive prosperity. It is an investment in one of the most critical forms of infrastructure out there.

    No one suggests veterans should have their benefits reduced. But for a nation that can clearly afford to pay for a broader base of accessible higher education, it seems very wrong to simply leave that process — or the nation’s future — to a Darwinian system of financial survival of the richest.




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    Copyright © 2017. All rights reserved. The views expressed here are solely those of the author(s) in their private capacity. Follow me on Twitter!

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  • Recent Comments

    • chuck said...

      1

      “War is a Racket”. S.Butler.

      09/27/16 7:58 AM | Comment Link

    • Rich Bauer said...

      2

      “Dropping just one plane from inventory generates enough money for 3,358 years of college money.”

      Wow, think about all the great things we could do if we sold the Pentagone. Hookers, blow, hell, we could all live like Donald “Sniffles” Trump.

      09/27/16 8:22 AM | Comment Link

    • bloodypitchfork said...

      3

      Rich Bauer said…

      “Hookers, blow, hell, we could all live like Donald “Sniffles” Trump.”
      Hahaha. Blow. Hahahahaha. I didn’t watch the circus, but my wife did. That’s the first thing she talked about. What’s really weird is I can’t find ANYTHING on the news about the sniffling thing. But yeah, I’ve got $10 that says he’s a coke head. That would even explain a lot of his psycho shit. Although, as a certifiable narcissist/sociopath from the time he was born..hard to say. But wouldn’t it be a mindblower if he got arrested for it. Hahahahahaha! I bet a lot of people are wondering the same thing today though. I mean..a hundred million people saw it. Hopefully..some Law Enforcement people are wondering too.

      Hey..I was under the impression you didn’t watch it??? Not that it matters. I’m glad I didn’t waste my time. Sleep was heavenly. Worked my ass off till two hours after dark last night, laying roofing felt on my studio before the rain comes today. That almost killed me. Literally. It was so windy I almost got blown off the roof. And the peak is at 14′, so..needless to say.. I would have died.

      Ok, bout the college vs military thing. This is exactly what will keep dumb ass boys joining the military. Only, a lot of them will never live to use it. And the military knows it. It’s like insurance companies know 90% of their customers will NEVER use it. But it does say volumes about Murika. As far as the PRICE to attend college..that’s exactly why I never went. Besides..I got married too early..and had kids. fuck me. What a moron. Of course, it was the price I paid to not die in Vietnam. I was the last male in my family tree. I got married on the last day the law was in effect. Otherwise, I was due to be drafted.

      As for the prices these scumbag colleges charge. Congress should pass a law making tuition like the income tax. Let the 1% pay for less affluent peoples higher education.

      As far as buying one less plane goes, the money the taxpayers have paid for that piece of shit F-35..hahahaha.. we could repave every road, fix every bridge, and send every kid in Murika to get a doctorate in college. What a joke. Notwithstanding, a few other DOD boondoggles too.

      AND, Congress is upping the DOD budget as I type. Even when the Pentamoron’s can’t even trace TWO TRILLION DOLLARS!!!!! Motherfuck. If stupidity were weather, Congress would be an 8.9 fucking hurricane. Mark Twain hit it on the nailhead. “Suppose there was an idiot……….
      Anyway..nuff bla bla bla.

      09/27/16 10:56 AM | Comment Link

    • jim hruska said...

      4

      pitchfork-thanks for the info that you were a draft dodger.
      i knew the guy that got killed in your place.

      wmw.
      to say 90 % join for college benefits and this is no doubt true, but if you notice there are no stats as to what % of vets actually use their gi bills.
      the army has a way of intruding on plans.when it’s time to ets and head to college they’ll offer a promotion and a reenlistment bonus and whamo your blasted for a burst of six. Or u get married and want the medical benefits. if u notice the people in the army breed fairly rapidly.
      or the person cashes out and buys a fancy car or…. or…
      i’d like to see the stats.
      jim hruska

      09/27/16 11:17 AM | Comment Link

    • jim hruska said...

      5

      Pitch fork.
      fwiw i have nothing against draft dodgers.
      i just hate it when they brag about it.
      jim

      09/27/16 11:19 AM | Comment Link

    • Rich Bauer said...

      6

      Let US starve the BEAST- BE SMART LIKE DONALD AND DON’T PAY TAXES.

      09/27/16 11:26 AM | Comment Link

    • Rich Bauer said...

      7

      If the military-industrial boondoggle ever had to justify its existence, it would have been out of business since 1952.

      09/27/16 11:28 AM | Comment Link

    • Rich Bauer said...

      8

      If students were taught to think in college, then I SUPPORT free education.

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8y06NSBBRtY

      09/27/16 12:00 PM | Comment Link

    • Rich Bauer said...

      9

      Pitch, didn’t watch the debate. I get all the news I need on the weather report…and ENTERTAINMENT WEEKLY;

      http://www.ew.com/article/2016/09/27/stephen-colbert-donald-trump-sniffles

      09/27/16 12:13 PM | Comment Link

    • bloodypitchfork said...

      10

      jim hruska said…

      “Pitch fork.
      fwiw i have nothing against draft dodgers.
      i just hate it when they brag about it.
      jim”

      Jim, I have nothing against morons who can’t find their ass with two hands and a mirror, but I just hate it when they die for NOTHING because of it. Now, excuse me while I enjoy what’s left of my life, which, I wouldn’t have if I believed what the USG was telling everyone during Vietnam.

      Meanwhile…fuck off.

      09/27/16 12:38 PM | Comment Link

    • Rich Bauer said...

      11

      MAKE A PITCH FOR PRESIDENT

      09/27/16 12:54 PM | Comment Link

    • Rich Bauer said...

      12

      The best thing I EVER DID was talk my two nephews out of joining the army and going to Iraq.

      09/27/16 1:00 PM | Comment Link

    • Rich Bauer said...

      13

      Neither of them went to college, and both are making good money working in jobs that require one to think.

      09/27/16 1:08 PM | Comment Link

    • bloodypitchfork said...

      14

      Rich said:

      “If the military-industrial boondoggle ever had to justify its existence, it would have been out of business since 1952.”

      Speaking of boondoggles….

      https://warisboring.com/the-f-35-stealth-fighter-may-never-be-ready-for-combat-5c1180d6e2b1#.twj9jqf6w

      Meanwhile….

      http://www.popularmechanics.com/military/weapons/a23052/new-f-35-fighter-engine-fire/

      This plane redefines the word..boondoggle, while proving the Dumbest Country on the Planet will continue to bend over for it’s daily buttfuck of the 16th Amendment while the MIC laughs out loud.

      The engine alone costs $18 MILLION DOLLARS while the plane costs 170 MILLION. And it’s never going to fly.
      right. sheeezusHfuckingcrist.

      09/27/16 1:14 PM | Comment Link

    • Rich Bauer said...

      15

      “Security is defined by much more than a standing military (and that does not even touch the question of how say an eight year occupation of Iraq made America more secure.)

      Don’t stop there, Peter. Let US not forget our bin-Laden Frankenstein, our Saddam Frankenstein, and the unknown Frankensteins our lunatic leaders are creating today.

      The military is not the solution; it is the problem.

      09/27/16 1:26 PM | Comment Link

    • chuck said...

      16

      Bonus Sarcasm… ( since it has banned here !) What candidate for pres is a vet.? EXTRA Points…How many millionaires are, or have ever been in Congress? 1 hash tag #u$a

      09/27/16 2:08 PM | Comment Link

    • bloodypitchfork said...

      17

      People who think they want to be one of the rulers of countries, should be required by LAW, to :

      a. Grow a small garden that will feed themselves for a winter.

      b. By hand, by them self, build a small 8’x12′ shed, to store everything they don’t need.

      09/27/16 6:29 PM | Comment Link

    • bloodypitchfork said...

      18

      Rich said”

      “Don’t stop there, Peter. Let US not forget our bin-Laden Frankenstein, our Saddam Frankenstein, and the unknown Frankensteins our lunatic leaders are creating today.

      The military is not the solution; it is the problem.”

      Speaking of Frankenstein. Cue Big Stick ideology, Big Stick diplomacy, Big Stick policy. Been happening since U.S. President Theodore Roosevelt’s foreign policy: “speak softly, and carry a big stick.”

      Unfortunately..after nuclear decimation of cities by the USG at the end of WWll demonstrated to the rest of the planet..they had to “up their ante”, here we are today…

      It goes on today. Hence:

      http://www.popularmechanics.com/military/weapons/a22722/chinas-building-a-new-bomber/

      At this point, knowing either lying, criminal Clinton or that criminally racist, serial liar, bonafide moron and sociopath, Trump will become our next Tuesday Kill List POTUS..

      I’d bet $1k this planet will see nuclear war within my children’s lifetime.

      09/27/16 6:49 PM | Comment Link

    • John Poole said...

      19

      Jim Bruska: -we need a caring and thoughtful dialogue for those who were confronted with the crucible of manhood for our generation -the Vietnam draft. I took my 9’10” Hobie surfboard to Mazatlan after I got my draft notice. I knew I could make a living playing in that resort town. I was already a professional pianist. But I took a vow. If the Army didn’t use me for combat I’d appear for induction. Sometime during basic training the Army figured out that they had drafted a professional pianist and so I was assigned to the 438th Army band as an 02N20 instead of AFT. But if that strange fate hadn’t happened I would have gone awol which is 10 to the 10th power more serious than draft dodging. We all need to explain why or why we didn’t “go”. I feel I failed the crucible of manhood since the draft sort of glanced off me. I hold not rancor for those who fled, those who served reluctantly and those who served with great pride. We all have to face our decisions.

      09/27/16 7:10 PM | Comment Link

    • John Poole said...

      20

      Jim, I meant AIT (advanced infantry training). I researched everything I could to find out if any O2N20s died in Nam. The WO3 head of the band found a way to keep me from being levied. Clever guy- but then again he wanted me in his band at Ft. Lewis to play the officer’s club gigs while he played bass. Jervis Beebee was his name. A surreal two years.I was COQ where a guy tried to kill himself – a saxophone player by jumping off the roof of the barracks. When I called the MPs reluctantly and they fucked him up royally with some nasty “restraint” moves. They were not in the mood to be called to the band barracks for some suicidal musician.

      09/27/16 7:17 PM | Comment Link

    • bloodypitchfork said...

      21

      Ok, I want to say something here. I did NOT dodge the draft. I used the LAW, which entitled me, as the last male, if I married, to avoid the draft. I did not run away, nor did I do anything unlawful. Had I not married, I would have lived up to the other law..that is, conscription. My conscience is clear. I feel sorry, for all those soldiers who died for absolutely NOTHING. By 1969, for the first time in my life, I felt total betrayal by a government, who, after the Pentagon Papers were released, realized the government lied through their teeth to the American people.
      But here is the real thing that sticks in my craw. By the time I was 50, the internet became an important tool for me to investigate things I was interested in. The very first thing I discovered, is what the CIA did in Vietnam. To this day, it makes me sick to my stomach every time I see the words PHOENIX and or MiLai.

      In essence, these events proved to me without a shadow of doubt, my government was a war criminal of biblical proportions, and the soldiers who were drafted, were conscripted by virtue of lies, to facilitate a war based on those lies. Unfortunately, thousands upon thousands of innocent Vietnamese, were butchered, incinerated, tortured and murdered. And for fucking what? Pyschopaths with the power to destroy the planet. They used that power because…they could. PERIOD. So don’t give me that holier than thou, Vet bullshit. I’m only alive because..I USED THE LAW. So eat me. I don’t give a flying fuck what you or anyone else thinks.

      09/28/16 7:27 AM | Comment Link

    • Rich Bauer said...

      22

      Donald Trump did two smart things in his entire life-dodge the draft and not pay taxes.

      09/28/16 8:07 AM | Comment Link

    • jim hruska said...

      23

      John,
      i guess i was the idiot.i volunteered for the infantry, gtd 1st branch choice as a rotc/dms/dmg.volunteered for rvn/sf/.
      i knew it was a crummy war, but my father fought so then did i.
      soldiers, especially citizen soldiers have an obligation to serve.there is always the c.o. option.

      now for pitch fork.
      i had ways to game the system, and i’m glad that i didn’t chicken shit my way out of serving.now i’m 70 yo and tired of hearing all the lame jive about why men(supposedly with testicles) saw fit to not serve.well that’s democracy for you.
      as for the law that you quote I’D BE PLEASED if you’d quote the law of which you speak.
      i think u may be talking about the sole survivor military regulation that applied to soldiers already on active duty.i’d guess that you aren’t private ryan or one of the sullivan brothers.
      i don’t care who avoided or for what reason , but please don’t expect cheers from me.
      as forrest gump said-chicken shit is as chicken shit does.
      i’m going to my airborne reunion this weekend and that’ll help me to rub against real Americans.
      jim hruska aka rangeragainstwar

      09/28/16 9:43 AM | Comment Link

    • Rich Bauer said...

      24

      “‘i’m going to my airborne reunion this weekend and that’ll help me to rub against real Americans.”

      Peter, please mark this as sarcasm. Some readers will think this is serious.

      09/28/16 10:07 AM | Comment Link

    • John Poole said...

      25

      Pitch- I was the only guy out of the USC School of Music to ever “serve”. Most were dopers or gay or had a note from their psychiatrist. Most just kept getting their IIS deferrment by marrying and then having a child. I wanted no part of grad school so I was 1A in 66. At 23 I was older than my drill sergeants!
      We all faced the crucible in some manner and none of us can judge decisions of those who were draft bait during those hideous times. I mark 1968 as the worst year in recent history for the US.

      09/28/16 10:21 AM | Comment Link

    • rich bauer said...

      26

      “We all faced the crucible in some manner and none of us can judge decisions of those who were draft bait during those hideous times.”

      None of US, really? You can judge the truth rather than uncritically accept lies that get US into hell of our own making. What don’t you people get that your government lies to you all the time? Gulf of Tonkin, Iraq WMDs, Grenada, Panama, the Ukraine. It never ends well following a road built on lies. That’s why NONE of these fiascos were declared wars – none of them could be justified.

      09/28/16 10:48 AM | Comment Link

    • bloodypitchfork said...

      27

      quote”i knew it was a crummy war, but my father fought so then did i.”

      Let me tell you something you self righteous creep. My dad was a member of the PBY flight crew that discovered the Jap fleet heading towards Midway during WW11. He thought the Vietnam war was a pox on America. He’s the one who convinced me the war was NOT protecting America. It was a hoax and a lie of biblical proportions. And HE convinced me…not to join and to get married. He also felt sorry for all those soldiers who were dying in Vietnam for nothing, as he saw plenty of men dying for the REAL thing during WW11. To the day he died, he hated the government for what they had turned the military into. Especially Bush and Iraq. Exactly what Eisenhower warned.

      “…as for the law that you quote I’D BE PLEASED if you’d quote the law of which you speak.
      i think u may be talking about the sole survivor military regulation that applied to soldiers already on active duty.

      I don’t have to. The mere fact I filled out a form, with proof of my sole survivor status, and took it to the local draft office, where my name was removed from the draft. That satisfies me there was a law.
      Now, fuck off. I’m done replying to you.

      09/28/16 11:16 AM | Comment Link

    • rich bauer said...

      28

      09/28/16 11:20 AM | Comment Link

    • bloodypitchfork said...

      29

      ps, enjoy your testosterone party. I’m sure you’ll yuk it up with your fellow murderers over how many human beings you killed. Meanwhile, you make me sick. Just as you did during the war.

      09/28/16 11:35 AM | Comment Link

    • rich bauer said...

      30

      Eureka, I’ve found it. No wonder Hillarious wants to start wars everywhere; the bitch needs to get laid.

      09/28/16 12:58 PM | Comment Link

    • John Poole said...

      31

      Irrefutible logic. If you truly believe in representational democracy you have to vote for Trump. Why? Easy, he fought hard and openly for the nomination for his party whereas the Democrats rigged the primary. The lofty and moralistic Democrats have become way more sinister, treacherous and conniving than any Republican I know. As a Democrat I admit being hoodwinked (Obama would love that term) by Obama and also the Sanders campaign which I supported generously with my dollars only to find that he too was a faker and phony.

      Pitch: My premise is that the war one is forced to fight as a young male is not your war.Your war is the one where sit safely out of the fray and send or allow young males off to battle. Vietnam wasn’t my war it was my father’s war and he never got it. He ended up a Master Sergeant in one year in the Japanese occupation. He should have stopped Vietnam. WWII he had no choice-My war? Easy. Iraq. I ranted that it was ruse and con just like Vietnam and sadly learned that foreign invasions bring prosperity to America and all Americans love prosperity.

      09/28/16 1:42 PM | Comment Link

    • rich bauer said...

      32

      ” I ranted that it was ruse and con just like Vietnam and sadly learned that foreign invasions bring prosperity to America and all Americans love prosperity.”

      Until they get the bill.

      09/28/16 1:57 PM | Comment Link

    • chuck said...

      33

      Damn Hawks? One just crashed into my bird feeder, and took a finch away. It landed in a tree and tortured the screaming creature for my viewing and then flew away. Life goes on…Wage Peace.

      09/28/16 3:15 PM | Comment Link

    • chuck said...

      34

      Killery/2016

      09/28/16 3:16 PM | Comment Link

    • jim hruska said...

      35

      Guys,
      what we got here is a failure to communicate.
      in 1948 a selective service law was enacted called “sole surviving son”. these persons were still required to register for the draft and subject to beeing drafted.
      Sole survivors are entitled to a deferment IF THERE IS A MILITARY DEATH IN THE IMMEDIATE FAMILY.
      This is taken from the govt Selective service web.
      i call bullshit on pitch.

      as a result of this thread i have given the topic some thougth and must conclude that draft dodgers are narcissistic cowardly losers. i also bet they happily accept government handouts.

      pitch,
      u told me to go fuck myself.
      please send instructions as i’m sure u have sufficient practice to simplify the process for me.

      If a immediate family member of yours died in military service then i extend my heart felt sympathy.
      jim hruska

      09/28/16 3:55 PM | Comment Link

    • John Poole said...

      36

      To all visiting this site you might assume I support Trump. I’ve said hundreds of times -the closeted lesbian Hillary will want to “man up” once POTUS.
      Czarina Hillary wants to rule Russia as well as the USA. She’d start a nuclear war but Trump wouldn’t. He has plenty of personality flaws but suicidal isn’t one of them.

      09/28/16 5:55 PM | Comment Link

    • John Poole said...

      37

      Bruska: What I remember clearly is all the guys at USC I knew went to grad school just to continue their deferment and then did the marriage and then children. I feel the crucible of the draft glanced off me and I did not have to meet i head on. Others were clueless and joined and we’re eager to kill gooks (I had to bunk with plenty in basic who couldn’t wait to kill!). Blame that on their fathers but mostly on their mothers. Mothers are clueless. They want warrior sons not guys who run. We have our consciences- Mine is murky.

      09/28/16 6:16 PM | Comment Link

    • jim hruska said...

      38

      John,
      the survival of hominids was and is based on protecting the females.
      this requires the males to be aggressive and hostile to a point of violent death. both giving and accepting same.
      it’s what we’ve done since day one. when we stopped being hunters we transferred this skill set to individuals specializing in security.
      in such societies men like yourself have always had a place. artists and artisans are part of the scenario.
      draft resisters and side steppers are not.
      as a result of this thread i’ve written a piece on the draft.

      now for a little philosophy.
      i wonder if the folks that called me killer etc know anything about soldiering? we kill but we’re not killers. guys can be draft dodgers because we manned up and served.
      actually for every man on the rvn wall there’s an equal amount of supposed men that played the system.we don’t look at the dark side of resisting.Aren’t these men guilty of premeditated murder?
      now for my take on our host. when i’m called a killer aren’t they also dissing Peter? didn’t he do exactly what i did? he served his country in a crummy , nasty aggressive war. so why aren’t these same guys calling him out?
      i also apologize if i high jacked this post.
      jim hruska

      09/29/16 11:18 AM | Comment Link

    • chuck said...

      39

      PVB has mentioned about the complaints to him and the misunderstanding of his deep sarcasm. We need to educate, not criticize, but move forward for Truth and Justice. Peace will be an end result. There is no blame for waging peace at anytime. Before, after, always, or NOW. Join in all. Enjoy.

      09/29/16 11:39 AM | Comment Link

    • Rich Bauer said...

      40

      Why does Sunny Jim Hruska hate Amerika?

      But you can’t hold a whole country responsible for the behavior of a few sick twisted individuals. For if you do, then shouldn’t we blame the whole system? And if the whole system is guilty, then isn’t this an indictment of our educational institutions in general? I put it to you, Jim – isn’t this an indictment of our entire American society? Well, you can do whatever you want to us, but we’re not going to sit here and listen to you badmouth the United States of America. Gentlemen!

      09/29/16 12:04 PM | Comment Link

    • Rich Bauer said...

      41

      And what did the Sunny Jims in ‘Nam accomplish other than make a market for AGENT ORANGE, which is still killing people) AND NAPALM (which really smells like burning flesh)?

      How do you clowns sleep at night?

      09/29/16 12:10 PM | Comment Link

    • Rich Bauer said...

      42

      09/29/16 12:13 PM | Comment Link

    • Rich Bauer said...

      43

      No, free college doesn’t threaten the military. Stupidity and greed does:

      http://www.pennlive.com/projects/2014/agent-orange/

      They don’t teach this in college.

      09/29/16 12:27 PM | Comment Link

    • Rich Bauer said...

      44

      “If so many people join up to get that college money, if college was free or cheaper, would they still enlist?”.

      NO, THEY’LL BECOME DEFENSE CONTRACTORS AND MAKE FIVE TIMES MORE.

      09/29/16 3:11 PM | Comment Link

    • chuck said...

      45

      If anyone wants to join a National group that goes to Recruiting stations any counter recruits, let me know. Sorry, but Vets. are the Best (for this). Help wanted. Counter Recruit. Killery/2016 (Cackle)

      09/29/16 3:22 PM | Comment Link

    • chuck said...

      46

      *and Counter Recruits* google. Like me on Facebook.

      09/29/16 3:23 PM | Comment Link

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